Locking nut moving(?)

Discussion in 'Luthiery, Modifications & Customizations' started by TheTrooper, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. TheTrooper

    TheTrooper SS.org Regular

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    If I pluck the portion of strings behind the nut (locked) and I dive bomb with the bar, they do what they shouldn't: they change pitch.

    I know this happens when there's a little gap between the locking nut and the fretboard (most of the times) but I'm thinking that to me, this migh be caused by a 0.59 string I'm using as a low B: maybe it's a little too think for the slot in the nut, thus not making full contact with the bottom of it (the "V" slot).

    The pressure pad of the 7th and 6th strings tends to twist to the right (for obvious reasons) and that makes me think the string might be (a little) to fat for the slot.

    Do locking nuts have a "right" string gauge (10-56 in this case) and I need a smaller string or I'm just stupid? :scratch:
     
  2. Scordare

    Scordare SS.org Regular

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    Are you using coated strings? I have had coated strings like Elixer and the neon DR's slip very badly in the locking nut just as you describe.

    Is it just one string slipping...the 6th? if so it may be that the 7th is too big for the pressure pad to adjust. Slightly filing the hole into an oval may give it more room to tilt.
     
  3. ImBCRichBitch

    ImBCRichBitch SS.org Regular

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    A .59 is definitely not too heavy. i use a .56 on a 6 with a floyd and its fine. Even .65 on a 7 is fine. Are they locked tight enough?
     
  4. TheTrooper

    TheTrooper SS.org Regular

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    Well it's not slipping, I was referring to the portion of strings after the locking nut.
    When it's locked, that portio should stay absolutely in that pitch, but If I do a dive bomb or pull up the trem, they move (which means all the nut is moving or only 1 string, but that would still mess the others)


    Absolutely, they're tight.

    When I got it I had a 52 instead of a 59 and it was absolutely perfect now that I re-think about it.

    It is strange though, not sure it is that.
     
  5. ImBCRichBitch

    ImBCRichBitch SS.org Regular

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    What scale is it?
     
  6. TheTrooper

    TheTrooper SS.org Regular

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    Good ol' 25,5"
     
  7. Pikka Bird

    Pikka Bird Vaya Con Cornholio

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    It can't just be the part behind the nut that's shifting, can it?
     
  8. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    Let's assume your are placing the locking pad correctly: the pad's top edge should be aligned with the strings. If these pads are correctly positioned, the problem is somewhere else.

    The somewhere else is one of two situations (maybe more?):
    • the locking screws or the nut's base thread are worn out thus for not locking properly, meaning there is not enough pressure for the locking.
    • the nut is slightly loose from the neck (I bet on this one because of the above statement).

    Do your check...
     
  9. Thrashman

    Thrashman Got Groove?

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    The nut is loose.

    The only way for the strings to change pitch in the way you said BEHIND the nut is if the nut itself is loose or shifting when you apply pressure to the tremolo arm, because the tension behind the nut should not ever change unless you touch the tuners on the headstock.

    Get it to a tech that can secure it if you are not confident doing it yourself. It's an easy fix with a toothpick and some wood glue.
     
  10. benny

    benny SS.org Regular

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    My Ibanez RG550's neck has some flex when I dump the bar. I haven't plucked the strings behind the nut to see if they change pitch from this, but I can when I get home. I don't think they would, but I don't know...just throwing out a thought.
     
  11. Thelamon

    Thelamon SS.org Regular

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    I wouldn't think that the area between the nut and the tuner would flex enough to change pitch on 3 inches of string.
     
  12. TheTrooper

    TheTrooper SS.org Regular

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    The Gap I'm referring to is very very little, and almost every guitar with a locking nut has it (It is a common problem in older guitars, like '90s Ibanez RG) but I filled the gap with a shim and I still have the problem, but it is really subtle, so it's not that.

    In fact, I know where it is happening: ( and I might be right with what I thought, the string being too big) only on the 7th and 6th strings, which makes me think it's the thickness of the string not making the pad to allign properly when locked.

    If I lock all the pads, and use the tuners on the headstock, only the 7th and 6th are moving (they change pitch evven if it is locked) while all the other strings don't.

    The pad for these 2 strings tends to twist to the right (you know, the same thing that every pad does, following the twist of the allen wrench) but even if I ge it to be straight, the problem it's still there)

    Absolutely, I know that.
    As I've explained in the message above, only the 7th and 6th strings do that thing; I'll have to try a lower gauge string and see if it changes....I'm pretty sure this problem only arose when I started using a .59 in the Low B, never happened before.

    Well, I'm pretty experienced with locking nuts and stuff; I only had one guitar that didn't have a tremolo bridge, all the other had Double Locking trems.



    Yeah, that' s a thing that happens on old Ibanez guitars and If it does, it's and easy fix.

    I'm not sure what do you mean with "area", but if You are referring to the portion of the headstock 8the wood itself) no, that's not the case; it is surely related to the pad that locks the last 2 low strings since all the others don't do that.


    BTW, thanks for the help guys, I appreciate that :agreed:
     
  13. benny

    benny SS.org Regular

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    I use a 60 on multiple guitars (6 and 7) with locking nuts and they don't exhibit this problem. My RG550 doesn't do it either, by the way.

    Swap the pads for your low and high strings? See if that changes anything.
     
  14. TheTrooper

    TheTrooper SS.org Regular

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    Well, looks like it is solved 99.5%

    It was the f*cking string indeed; switched to a .52 (I hope I can fit a .56 without having the same problem)

    EDIT: I changed the bolt that that keeps the pad locked and it seems to be vanished.
     
  15. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    You needed a new/longer bolt...
     
  16. TheTrooper

    TheTrooper SS.org Regular

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    The bolt was a stainless steel one like all the others, No damage to it or anything (in fact I couldn't distinguish it from a new/never installed one); same lenght, same material, same everything.

    I just changed it with another one and it's all good now :scratch:

    I don't think longer bolt are made anyway, I think they are all made from the same blueprint (from Floyd Rose/Schaller).
     
  17. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    Well, it's working, right?
     
  18. TheTrooper

    TheTrooper SS.org Regular

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    Yep, but I wanted to know what caused it exactly.

    I'm pretty sure the thickness of the string had something to do with it, even if it's so damn strange.

    I emailed Floyd Rose to know about it more, when (and if) they answer, I will post here, in case of anybody else having the same issue. :agreed:
     
  19. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    Could you have missplaced those pads? Don't know if they are all alike or if there is some difference, Have you checked that out? If one Pad is thicker than other, it could be an obstacle for the screw/bolt to lock properly...
     
  20. TheTrooper

    TheTrooper SS.org Regular

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    Allright, is not gone away, so I'm thinking it's something related to the pad or the interaction with pad and bolt, but I can't really tell.

    The pads are all exactly the same and it's happening on the low strings (now mainly on the E) so it's for sure the way the pad gets twisted and locked.

    Maybe the thread on the nut it's stripped a little? all the holes feels the same (no pun intended) so I'm not really sold on that.

    Floyd Rose is still not answering.
     

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