Let's be selfish: 3 Item Lists of what YOU want from Uncle Sam

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by vilk, Jul 29, 2016.

  1. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    No, that's not what it says.

    You said:
    "and people who are violent often, if not generally, fall into the category of "abnormal," insomuch as an FMRI can see lack of function in areas of the brain."

    Article 1 says, in summary:
    Violent schizophrenics have a decreased function of frontal lobe activity compared to non-schizophrenics, but a different decreased function when compared to violent anti-social/depressives. Unfortunately the rest of the article is tucked behind a paywall, but you can believe that 68 citations in 10 years is not exactly ground-breaking, widely believed or widely impactful science.

    Article 2 says, in summary:
    A jury should understand precisely what fMRI measures and the extent to which conclusions can be drawn from these sources in order to make informed decisions. It lists ways in which reduced functioning in various areas may be linked to violent activity. You'll noticed this is not a localized, clear-cut account. It also says nothing of violent offenders often, if not generally, having abnormal fMRI scans.

    What is being shown is more the opposite: that when individuals have cognitive impairments in particular areas, they may be less in control of their decisions and more likely to commit violent acts. What you're saying is that often violent offenders have a cognitive impairment. If I told you that all tall men wear hats, you should probably not conclude that men who wear hats are often tall.
     
  2. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I've got nothing to add of any real value, but this is a more eloquently put version of why I questioned the idea of a "mental health crisis".

    I can't speak on the science-y stuff, cause to be honest, I don't have the kind of faith in science where I can just say "it's in a paper, so it must be true", nor do I have the knowledge or vocabulary to make a very strong point, but I don't think we have enough knowledge of the brain (or whatever other organs or systems are involved) to be able to really identify or treat behaviors the same way we treat normal medical conditions.

    I don't have time at the moment to read those papers, but when I do, maybe I'll have a more informed point to make. :lol:
     
  3. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Read what you typed out.
     
  4. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    Yea, I mean, below left is the brain of a normal, functioning man with headaches and below-average intelligence:

    [​IMG]

    There's almost nothing there! No one really understands how this is even possible (it occurs because of fluid buildup, but I mean no one understands how you can lead any semblance of a normal life with so little matter). Pretty safe to say he has decreased activation across the frontal lobe, yet, not a violent man.

    Again, a women with no cerebellum *at all*:
    [​IMG]

    Yet, walking around, doing things that studies indicate the cerebellum is typically responsible for.
     
  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    A. What you posted above are anomalies, not at all usual cases.
    B. The man in question, you call "normal," but did have issues with quite low intelligence and chronic problems with his extremities. So he was really not "normal," but rather just suffered less effects than expected from what you see in the MRI.
    C. The woman with no cerebellum, able to walk, did have some quite notable mobility issues and had great difficulty speaking. So she did have effects that were very much linked to what you see in the MRI. The anomaly was that she had ability to coordinate movement at all.

    Not that these are not interesting cases or anything like that, just that they are highly unusual. But again, my point, with which you took issue, was that I said "and people who are violent often, if not generally, fall into the category of "abnormal," insomuch as an FMRI can see lack of function in areas of the brain," not that an FMRI can diagnose behavioural problems with some said degree of accuracy.
     
  6. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    C'mon man, are you just going to argue with everything?

    I never said otherwise. Just interesting cases which exemplify the brain's power to adapt and to defy efforts to localize processing of different phenomena within certain areas of the brain.

    I point out that he had below-average intelligence, but he's not what you'd clinically refer to as retarded. He doesn't behave weirdly. There are many people who function at his level that you would describe as "normal", and he has no diagnosed conditions. He has a family and a government job. The problem with his extremities were a result of increasing pressure on the brain, not the lack of brain mass.

    You say "quite notable mobility issues", article says "the missing cerebellum resulted in only mild to moderate motor deficiency." You say "great difficulty speaking", article says "mild speech problems such as slightly slurred pronunciation."

    Yea, that's still not a true statement. So according to you, if I took some large sample of the general violent population and put them under an fMRI, I'd be able to see a lack of function in systematic areas of the brain with a significant portion of the sample population (enough to correspond to something occurring "often"). And that's not been done (or at least has not been shown to have been done, by you) nor does experience with fMRIs lead me to believe that it would be true.
     
  7. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    EDIT: Nevermind. I didn't say that some people need mental healthcare so that I could get into an argument with somebody about how the human brain is intended to work.
     
  8. coreysMonster

    coreysMonster So long, Germany!

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    1. Cut taxes, utilize a smaller budget more intelligently.

    2. End the war on drugs, this ties into 1. Stop spending so many tax dollars policing the public for things that aren't hurting anybody. Instead use the tax money to

    3. Have a health care system worthy of a 1st world country in the 21st century. I mean goddamn.

    Bonus 4: End for-profit prisons.

    Bonus 5: I have to pay the state yearly to drive a vehicle that I own. Call it a tax and be done with it, don't pretend like yearly registration isn't simply another revenue stream for the government.
     
  9. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed SS.org Regular

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    1) I want the entirety for the fruits of my labors back- something they haven't a right to abscond.

    2) That it only does what was intended to do- "protect the rights of the governed". This can be achieved in conjunction with volunteerism. This means no foreign wars, no occupations, not even a military prescience in Europe.

    3) Nothing else. No heath care system, no Social Security and no social safety nets. This also means that that corporations, who are granted the legal right to lobby, would no longer be able to sway government. The end result would be college and healthcare (as a few examples of where the intertwining tendrils of government have inflated prices) would be affordable.

    These three things would take care of virtually all other issues-
     
  10. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    would be affordable to some people, while others starve and die of sickness in the streets and alleys*

    The one thing whole LEAVE ME ALONE, GOV'T doesn't take into account is that there is a certain percent of the population that just sucks. They can't do anything right, and while it might be argued that it's only their own fault, it isn't as though most people ask to be born, or raised all f///ed up and whatever. Or they used to be normal people, and then some insane sh/t happens to them and destroys their life. Goes on every day.

    What happens to those people?

    Volunteers! Now that everyone is a rich rich man because we don't have taxes, surely we'll all spend our time among the toiling masses of suckage!

    ...well, you hope so. But not necessarily. So what if not? So then they die and you don't care? Darwin's Survival of the Fittest? Will there at least be a municipal task force for body removal and disposal (but who would pay them? Or are they volunteers?)?

    Just curious. And this is posed at any of you guys who take this position, not just ted. Do you just not care? I'm not telling you that you should, I'm just asking you if you don't.
     

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