Kiesel ZEUS Bolt on headless waaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Discussion in 'Sevenstring Guitars' started by MrHelloGuitar, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire ERG hoarder

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    See i'm the opposite. I can visualize what a good clean version of their models look like so seeing the equivalent of guitar herpes on an otherwise solid design makes me sad. People rag on this model, but it's not like most other headless singlecuts look that much better imo(barring padalka's saturn, which i love). I greatly prefer this design to the chris letchford headless, which is so lazy imo.
     
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  2. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Agreed. The Letchford one is terrible. IMO, a headless guitar can't simply be a regular guitar with the back cut out and the HS lopped off. That is simply jumping on the popular headless bandwagon. Pretty soon we're going to be able to buy headlesscoin, the latest trend combining headless guitars and cryptocurrency. :lol:

    When OLA did the strandberg, he was designing a guitar from the ground up. Same with Steinberger. But these Kiesels, the Mayones Hyrdra (don't get my started on that misnomer) the Legator Ghost (blech), even the Ran model, all are guitars that would not have been created if not for the current headless trend. They offer very little other than having the headstock chopped off.

    Anyway, I know I'm shaking my fist at the kids on my lawn, but I'm just suuuuper particular about design, and the integrity and ethics of it. I know making guitars is a business, but I don't see why you'd have to just jump on the latest trends to make a quick buck. In a music context, there are plenty of bands that did their own thing, were true to themselves, and succeeded. Then there are the bands who do focus groups to get songs, lyrics, chord progressions, that they know will sell. I hate those bands. And I hate companies that make me feel like their making guitars in the same way. So the rush to market to make a buck bothers me.

    (And, I'm aware that Jeff Kiesel is not necessarily doing any of that. I have no idea what is going on in his mind. I just know that there are a lot of new Kiesel headless guitars, and I'm not a huge fan of any of them.)
     
  3. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    There's a market for something LIKE that. Not necessarily a big one, and I'm not saying the Letchford is a good execution of the concept, but there are a LOT of people who didn't like the Vader solely because they said it would look tiny on them. To me, a headless has it's own function over other guitars independent of other ergonomic designs/features. Is it an important one as a part of a holistic design of an 'ergonomic' guitar? Absolutely. Like...you wouldn't design a race car without good brakes, but at the same time you can still put good brakes on a sedan for improved performance.

    So to those folks who want a guitar that looks and feels "normal", a guitar without a headstock that still has a normal-ish sized body will still get many of the other benefits of a headless guitar: It'll still take up the same smaller footprint on a smaller stage or crowded rehersal space, it's still lighter, it's still jettisoning the headstock tuners and potential issues with nut binding, it's less neck-heavy, the neck will be stiffer, it uses the same cases so it should still fit in all the same overhead compartments and car trunks, etc.

    To me, a complaint about how the body itself isn't smaller is similar to complaining about an iPad that's too thick. At a certain point, the thickness isn't preventing or causing any portability problems, so making it thinner doesn't necessarily improve things that much. There's also an entire market of people who think that a guitar with less mass has "less tone" (whatever that means, but you know what I mean). And in the case of the Letchford, while the body width is still pretty similar to other headless models, it's also the thinnest body they sell on any model. So it's potentially within ounces of a Vader or Zeus, anyway.
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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  5. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Well, I imagine something around $4-5k. It's got a cocobolo neck and a flamed koa body (not just a koa body with a little bit of incidental flame), and I *believe* that's their highest grade "master grade" koa top. It also looks like it has a Ziricote electronics cavity cover, which doesn't match anything but adds cost. ha!
     
  6. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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    It's a koa neck according to the video... and the body is typical good quality Koa again judging from the video regardless of what they claim. Unlike most of their audience I've actually bought wood for guitars before and Jeff's claims are hilarious. Either he uses the worst priced source for lumber ever or he just makes shit up on the fly.

    Not to say that isn't a beautiful guitar with some damn nice wood.
     
  7. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Yeah, the main issue I have with the Letchford guitar is that the bridge is in the same area as a regular guitar, so there's not a huge need for it to be headless (IMO). I never thought about it, but I totally get people wanting a "bigger" guitar than the Vader. I personally like it because it's soooo tiny. Just today I picked up the soft case for my Vader, and thought, "Man, this is like a kid's guitar case!" It's hard to believe I put a 27" scale guitar in there!

    Also, as an aside, I lurk quite a bit over on the BBS, and I always like your posts over there. You're very even keeled, and thoughtful in your responses.
     
  8. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

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    yeah but thats kinda the point of headless guitars, that due to the tunners in the bridge, the guitar body has to be smaller so you can acces them. Not quite a "traveler guitar" but kinda almost there. Strangbers are tinny

    Its like when people say "can you make a headless bass of that". it kinda beats the point, the bass body would remain exactly the same as the bass bridges are already at the edge of the body. The only thing you are doing is chopping the headstock off for no reason rather than aesthetics. Unless you have a fender style bass, in which it does improve a lot the lack of weight

    but then again there are people that jsut want that^, the looks of it. I still think headless basses are the most useless thing. Guitars are cool as the system push you to design a smaller/different body. Basses is jsut a cut the headstock off and be done
     
  9. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger Contributor

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    Its insane how big a mark up most manufacturers and builders charge on wood. A lot of guys live off just buying from source and then selling to builders with a big mark up which then mark it up for the customer.
     
  10. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire ERG hoarder

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    [​IMG]
    jeff's personal build. cocobolo board, resin top. not a fan of mixing the pickup colors like that , otherwise I dig the build.
     
  11. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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    To follow up we are talking about two different guitars... the one I posted is the guitar of the week they put a video up for and it does not have a Ziricote back plate or Cocobolo neck. I see the one you are talking about now, KnightBrolaire has it in the post above mine, and yeah that is a sweet piece of Koa they used for the body. That is Jeff's guitar and has a resin top on it, they put it up on Facebook... love the back but not a fan of the front at all :2c:

    Also loving the whole "resin top" thing. "Ok guys, in this order of wood we got a bunch of shit that is too broken up / soft / full of holes to use, what do we do with it? I KNOW! Let't dump colored glue on it to harden it up, call it a resin top, and the make it an upcharge!!!!"
     
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  12. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    Why do normal guitars even need all that extra mass behind the bridge...other then it’s the way it was always done? Anyone know?

    Resin seems to be in this year.
    In 10 years all guitars are just going to be 100 piece laminates of glue, resin, and filler. People are just going to forget about the wood entirely.
     
  13. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire ERG hoarder

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    he's just jumping on the bandwagon that alpher instruments started. both of the companies are ordering from californiawoods where they do those epoxy stabilized tops. some of the tops/color combos out there are just insane.
    [​IMG]
    The purple middle one has leds under the resin that lets you play with the the coloring of the resin. It's really an awesome build. here's another shot of it with the lights on a diff setting:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    Y even use wood at all at that point
     
  15. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire ERG hoarder

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    did you look at the tops? there's still a fair amount of wood in them (not that it matters, buckeye and most other burls have the consistency of cardboard if you don't stabilize them somehow).
     
  16. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    I kno. But like y tho.

    Why not just too your guitar with a resin plastic hook filled with leds and Christmas lights and laser pointers.

    Kidding not kidding.

    I guess I get it. People need to have their guitars look like prom queens. Meanwhile the last guitar I specced is just a mahogony body dyed black.
     
  17. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Yeah, those Alpher instruments are cool. I'd love to own one someday, but I think I still prefer the actual wood. Too much of the coloring in there looks like it's something other than wood. Not that it's not cool - just different. And I have to say, I like the burl tops that Kiesel does, but I'm still not a huge fan of the amount that gets cut off on the bevel. I think it's neat to see a little of the body when looking at the top (I'm actually a big fan of the arm bevel showing the body wood), but too much of it ruins the effect for me. The Aries and this new one just cut off too much for my tastes.
     
  18. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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    I actually don't mind the bevel on these, I think because it actually flows with the shape vs the Aries where it just looks off... and I am an on-record bevel hater :lol:

    That said if I want an acrylic guitar I'll go buy one for $400... I don't need to pay a substantial upcharge for it :2c:
     
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  19. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire ERG hoarder

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    Different strokes for different folks. :shrug: I like blinged out guitars and subtle ones.
     
  20. MegaTones

    MegaTones SS.org Regular

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    I think the only Kiesel design I have ever liked was the K series. Everything else looks like shit to me, like unfinished drawings/designs that haven't been refined yet.
     

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