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Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by MetalHead40, Mar 7, 2017.
The dolphins would kill themselves off over Crab vs Octopus and Atlantic vs Pacific.
I am loathe to do this (quoting myself just because it got immediately "new-paged"), but thought it was relevant enough to repost. For those who are upset, thinking Kiesel is over-reaching by having posts deleted or people banned on what appears to be a public page "by the fans":
yeah, ban people for showing how they legit screwed up that fretboard and haven't remedied the situation. That's called a "cover-up"
On a branch of their own marketing? That's ridiculous. Customer-focused and 100% transparent? No. But what movie poster includes negative reviews (unless they are doing it as a joke)? If someone is standing inside your store handing out pictures of something you fucked up, wouldn't you kick them out?
That is a public Kiesel fan page/group. It is NOT the official Kiesel Facebook page.... Therefore not ran by Kiesel directly, nor not owned by Kiesel.
Wouldn't it be more prudent to turn the negative around?
I think you're missing the point completely, or you get it and just want to play semantics.
No one is saying that Jeff can't bury the negative posts. He certainly can. We're all just pointing out how shitty that is.
Oh, make no mistake...I'm not saying it's not crappy, or that there's better ways of going about it...like fixing the issue. But shouting that they are deleting negative posts and banning people posting negative things about them (even if true) isn't as unbelievable and underhanded as people make it seem.
Please see my post before the one you replied to. "Group by Kiesel Guitars".
It's very believable, but it is underhanded.
Burying the truth is by definition "underhanded".
I guess you could frame the argument as not being uncommon, as there are other builders who engage in this kind of stuff, but that certainly doesn't make it better or right any way you cut it.
Though, I don't really see folks saying that they don't believe this is happening, quite the contrary.
It's not unbelievable, it IS underhanded. If you, as a company, aren't fixing serious issues and people post about it on a public forum because you have no other means to get the attention you need, deleting it is COMPLETELY underhanded.
Fair. I'm just not finding the right words in my mental thesaurus, I think.
Basically, nobody should be surprised that ANY company would remove negative review of their own products from their own marketing. Wendy's isn't going to leave up a post on their wall that the chili gave them the shits.
Am I saying Wendy's shouldn't fix the chili? Of course now. But being mad at them for removing the post is a silly thing to complain about, when the complaint should be about the issue being posted about. Again, which I'm not saying nobody is...clearly they are...but to keep posting about it on what is effectively their own website, is idiotic. This is that sso.org, hc, reddit, etc are for.
Most companies don't give a shit what you post on thier social media as long as it's not racist, sexist, abusive, etc.
The ones who really care and go to great lengths to bury the bullshit are typically small businesses run by dicks. Case in point every other scumbag scam artist builder we've had to excise from here. I've made the comparison before and I'll make it again: Kiesel has joined the ranks of BRJ in that they've tried to use thier influence to scrub reports of bad guitars and customer service from sites not thier own.
Doing underhanded stuff like this, while legal and in a way understandable from certain standpoints, is still shitty and should be called out.
Besides, how can we discuss the actual problem when it's being hidden?
I think you're plenty well spoken and I understand what you're saying.
I just think it doesn't make any sense unless the goal is to deflect some of the crap Kiesel is getting from doing unethical crap.
The original cracked fretboard post was on the public Facebook page I mentioned. I saw it before it was deleted.
In response to Jeff’s whole “family” deal, I made this shitty resident evil gif
Welcome to the family, son
There is much hiding of respect and knocking in this thread.
^which shitshow is that from?
Snipped it from that Arnold Kiesel video mentioned somewhere around here.
I know "typically" gives you some wiggle room here, but Mesa aren't exactly a fly-by-night company, and they're notorious for purging negative comments from their social media sites and forcing YouTubers to take down negative reviews (they did a whole lot of that in the aftermath of the Cab Clone fiasco).
And as someone who digs Mesa amps, and has owned several, I think it's bullshit that they do that.
Obviously even good companies can get uptight on the internet. I'd even say that Kiesel isn't a bad company at all, they're just doing some dumb shit that I'm going to call them on and bring attention to until they stop. Think of it as tough love.