Kiesel --- Never Again!

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by MetalHead40, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. Science_Penguin

    Science_Penguin SS.org Regular

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    I kind of want to see what that looks like under a black light, but I fear I may go blind...
     
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  2. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Gulag resident

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    Yeah it would be torture to go back and listen to all those Q&As but he said MULTIPLE times that "We're better than Asian guitars" or some variation over 2 + years. Every time I said that, I got super pissed.
     
  3. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Gulag resident

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    There's something I've been wondering for anyone who still owns a Kiesel or Carvin, and I'll probably get the most honest answers here:

    So I got the same neck woods on both my JB200 and V220 (5 piece maple, mahogany stripes). My JB200, even when I got it way back when I did, when the consumption tax in Japan was at 5% (it's currently 8 and will go up to 10 next year) cost considerably more than my V220. It has perfect grains in the mahogany, no streaking or anything. However, my V220, being that I got it pre-cost increase cost a LOT less than the JB200 (solid color, very basic options), however, the grain in the mahogany has some white discoloration near the neck joint.

    Now what I wonder is, has anyone gotten a "more expensive" model that came out with amazing wood grains, and a cheaper, simple build with less than stellar wood grains? I'm wondering this because I wonder if Kiesel is purposely saving it's really nice wood for expensive builds, and those of us who want something simple get shafted.
     
  4. Zado

    Zado SS.org Regular

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    Damn, it's crazy a guy like this, in the internet era, is still running a guitar businness
     
  5. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Gulag resident

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    Dude, it's about respect. The president of ESP and Hoshino Gakki don't talk trash about other countries' products. The president of Fujigen doesn't say anything. It's about mutual respect, and when the face of your company is an asshole, it damages the rep of the brand.
     
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  6. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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    While I can't disagree, this isn't anything specific about Japan. Using Japan just saved him saying Ibanez, ESP etc etc. He's taken shots at numerous US companies and builders as well, it's us vs them cult-style marketing. Jeff tries to brand himself and the company as underdogs building superior products while everybody else is out to get him and sucks. It's his schtick and sadly it seems like the younger audience in their teens and twenties eats it up.
     
  7. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Gulag resident

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    That's very true. I just found that his "Us vs them" attitude started with him bashing "Asian" guitars. I think it's just gotten worse over time.
     
  8. Science_Penguin

    Science_Penguin SS.org Regular

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    Well, give the guy credit, he certainly understands one thing about his consumers- people love to pick a brand and talk about how superior they are for picking said brand. Young guitarists in particular seem to have this idea in their heads that you want to be staunchly loyal to certain brands, either because they don't seem to realise that Famous Guitarist X talks up Brand Y so much cause he has an endorsement deal, or they're hoping that they might score a deal themselves if they get an early start.

    If you're not gonna deliver on quality, use sleazy marketing strategies...
     
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  9. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    This.

    I don't have a dog in this fight but between this and the QC issues I have seen online I will never order a Kiesel.

    Maybe if I came across one used that I got to play up front and really dug but I would never order a new guitar from them. I know other builders who have much better support and who are much more deserving IMO that I would rather give my money to.
     
  10. davedeath

    davedeath SS.org Regular

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    He's definitely mentioned ibanez by name a few times, especially in the earlier live streams.
     
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  11. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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    The point was he's taking shots at everyone not just the Japanese :facepalm: :lol:
     
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  12. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    I find anything nice he has to say about Carvin after dismantling it to be far more offensive than his troll comments.
     
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  13. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Gulag resident

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    That's a really good point. After all that trash he talked about Carvin audio after the split, that was insulting to both Carson and Gavin. He's such a pompous ass.
     
  14. will_shred

    will_shred not that good.

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    I'm just gonna come out and say it. Every Carvin I played was an awesome guitar, I have yet to get my hands on any of the new Kiesels, but if the quality is the same I'm sure they're good guitars. I'm just saying, there's a good reason they have been as successful as they've been. I do hope that OP's issue was eventually taken care of, because that was just cringe worthy and no company would want to have that hanging over their head. The most of the Kiesels I've seen look awesome, and the number of people raving about the quality of the guitars is far more than the small handful of fuckups. Though I will say, every large company will probably fuck something up from time to time, and its in how they respond to it that makes them or breaks them (like the famous strictly7 meltdown) The sales rep OP was dealing with sounded like a total asshat, and should probably have been fired since this has been made public.

    I would still order a Kiesel, and probably will at some point.
     
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  15. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Gulag resident

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    I have 2, one Carvin, one Kiesel. They are fine guitars, considering i got them cheaper than what they cost now, I'm happy with them. HOWEVER, giving that idiot Jeff any more money is just out of the question for me now. I like Chris, he's always been a good dude and helped me through a lot of orders. Mike has been a good guy to me too. I even ordered a couple pickups from Keith, and he was a really cool dude the little I've talked to him. THOSE are guys you support. Jeff can piss off. The sad thing is, to support them, you have to support Jeff and that is out of the question.
     
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  16. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Yeah, that really irritated me when I first found that out, too. I've also wanted a Becker numbers guitar for ever, and when I saw it on the website with the "Save $200" thing on there I noticed that the price was exactly the same. So I called, and Mike told me that they are $1499 normally, but they price them up to $1699 on the in-stock page just so they can give you $200 off. I said, "Why would you do that? Why not just advertise it at the actual price, or give a discount from the actual price?" He said something about it needing to be on sale on that page, and that's just the way they do it. I asked again (on the phone) and he got really short and irritated with me.
    Disheartened, but not deterred, I saw one pop up on their Reverb page. I clicked on the "make offer" button, and offered $100 less than the $1499 it was listed for there. They responded and said that they don't sell them for less than $1499. So again, I'm confused why they would list it as a sale with a "make offer" option on it. The whole thing just seems shady. Which sucks, because those of us who are gear whores would likely own 3 or 4 Kiesels if we felt confident enough about the company. It's just so easy to buy one online. But I'll be damned if I'm going to fight with them over whether they have to honor a return policy.
     
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  17. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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    The in-stock page actually skirts close to false advertising and is definitely shady... the reverb stuff I have absolutely no idea as it just seems dumb :lol:

    I think total I've owned 5 or 6 Carvins / Kiesels over time and came out about 50/50 being great or dogs / flawed. The last flat yellow Vader I had was really nice and I returned it intending to order one, but in the middle of that their media guy was a dickhead on here and the level of douchiness went through the ceiling with Jeff and I just walked away from the idea.

    Got to admit I almost pulled the trigger on the blood red Vader trem that was on their in-stock page a couple days ago but just couldn't do it.
     
  18. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Gulag resident

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    which media guy was a dick? Just curious.
     
  19. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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    He's since been fired and everybody knows who it was... He was actually running the Kiesel Guitars account on here. His handle on here and other places was engage something.
     
  20. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Gulag resident

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    Ah okay. I never knew about him as I didn't even get my JB200 until 3 and a half years ago.

    Why are some companies so focused on quashing negative opinions though? Other big guitar makers are like "Yeah yeah whatever," but the places like Kiesel seem to be trying to hide a lot of stuff from the consumers so that they don't hear both sides of the story. Sounds like something an SJW would do :/
     
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