Kiesel models being retired 12/31/17

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by spudmunkey, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Albake21

    Albake21 "Just get a used Ibanez Prestige."

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    So I checked last night and it looks like this is all in effect. It actually was not much of an increase at all. Most models just received a $50 bump in price, but considering stainless steel frets are now the standard (it was a $40 upgrade before), not much has changed.
     
  2. fps

    fps Kit

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    I love my 727. Ah well, never be another one.
     
  3. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire gearwhoricus americanus

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    they still offer the DC series and you can still get it in 25.5 or 27" scale, with passive pickups. All they did was eliminate the redundant model.
     
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  4. jclogston

    jclogston SS.org Regular

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    Don't see any new colors unfortunately...
     
  5. Albake21

    Albake21 "Just get a used Ibanez Prestige."

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    Did they say anything about new colors or were you just hoping for new ones?
     
  6. jclogston

    jclogston SS.org Regular

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    Just hoping lol
     
  7. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Indeed. Although I *thought* they said that the other sizes of SS frets would be no charge, and that the EVO frets wold be a smaller upcharge, but they are still as they were. i might have mis-heard, though.

    Even though the DC127 is now $999, when adjusted for inflation is still cheaper than it would have been a decade ago.

    Their challenge is that anything cheaper than them used to be garbage. I'm sure this is the entire reason they aren't beating the "value" drum like they used to...they simply can't. They have to bring in aspects of the "botique" market in to their offering, while still maintaining the efficiency of a running factory, cranking out 5,000+ guitars a year.

    The Bolt didn't go up as much as they hinted at. I guessed wrong on them jettisoning the standard non-locking tuners and giving the Bolt the locking tuners almost every other model gets (I missed that the Greg Howe models are both standard with non-locking tuners).
     
  8. TheWarAgainstTime

    TheWarAgainstTime "TWAT" for short

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    I'm sad to see the TL60 go :( I got one in 2013 and it's my favorite guitar in the world. No one else is doing a neck-thru Tele in a similar price point, let alone with all the options Kiesel offers...
     
  9. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Burn In Agony

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    at that price for a DC127, it still doesn't compete with the 2018 ibanez rg550 reissues.
     
  10. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    How do Ibanez normally price our retail vs MSRP? They seem to list around $1,500. Genuinely curious.

    For me, .I don't like jumbo feets, nor terms. Since there are no other options, the rg550 has no appeal to me. I'd still take a 127 over the rg550, and I'm not even that big on the dc127. But, all a floyd setup and jumbo frets, and they probably come out pretty close in price.
     
  11. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Even with a small price bump, Carvin is still probably the most value packed game in town. Unless you get completely stupid with specs you can usually match most of the market by at least 90% for roughly 120% the price, which isn't bad at all.

    I have a bunch of hang ups with what they're doing now, but I'm big enough to admit where they shine.

    Also, they're such an outlier that I wouldn't compare them to many, especially Ibanez.

    If they can get the service up to par like the "old days" of the early 00's and previous they'll be unstoppable.
     
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  12. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Burn In Agony

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    The RG550 reissues for 2018 are only 107,000 yen, which is already FAR cheaper than 999 dollars, and that's before all sorts of options on the dc127. Sure you can't customize it besides some little things like pups, pickguards knobs etc, but it's the cheapest the RG550 or any MIJ Ibanez has been in a LONG time (since the Roadcores, and the roadcores were TOMs). Also, at least the paint job on my 550 RF came out better than on my V220, no dings or bad paint on the neck joint or trem.

    They also released a cheaper, non-trem version, called the RG521 with this set of reissues. I'm happier with my 550RF than I was when I got my V220, and that's mostly because of the errors at Kiesel kinda bothered me.
     
  13. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    The DC127 is still a better deal unless the RG521 or RG550 is EXACTLY what you want.

    But like I said, comparing these guitars is ridiculous. Are we going to be comparing Les Paul Standards to Telecaster Customs next? :lol:
     
  14. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Burn In Agony

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    I'm talking about price point, not comparing guitars themselves.
     
  15. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    But isn't that the point of the comparison?

    I mean, we can infer what each costs to purchase from any given country in any given currency, but what does that do?

    At what point does the <10% price difference matter if you don't like one or the other?
     
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  16. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Eh, it's about $951-953. Less than a 5% discount is effectively a wash, if one was in the market for both. If I got a 5% off coupon, it wouldn't get me to buy if I wasn't already going to anyway. :)
     
  17. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Burn In Agony

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    But let's look at costs associated that would bring a DC127 to similar spec to a 550:

    DC127 would need:
    OFR with locking nut (150)
    Pointed angled headstock (50)
    Regular maple board
    dot inlays (black 20)
    25.5 inch scale (which doesn't exist for the 127)
    black hardware (30)
    black logo
    wild color (let's use McLaren Yellow just for argument's sake) 30
    Since Jeff hates basswood and says swamp ash is close tonally, let's use Maple neck/Ash body, (60)
    Maple neck/walnut stripes (120)
    THNN (60)
    Tung oil neck (60)
    Stainless jumbo frets (40)
    Add center single (75)
    Softcase (60)

    at 999 base cost, let's add all the extra options on there and see what happens:
    $1654 USD BEFORE shipping.

    I tried to make it as close to spec to an RG550 as possible, with certain things like frets being something I have no control over. Now when you look at that price, then compare it to one of the new RG550s, you get a pretty nice guitar for the price, and it's MIJ. It completely undercuts Kiesel at this point, even without the price increase factored in. I mean if you wanted to cut costs somewhere, making it an alder body would cut a little bit of the cost down, but to keep it as close as possible to RG550 specs, this is how I had to go through the builder to get it.

    I'm only playing devil's advocate here, because I believe finding the best bang for the buck is WAY more important than blinging stuff out. MY JB200, at the price I got it for, is amazing. My V220, before the price increase hit it the first time last year: Amazing (except for the well spoken of paint issues). I think that if you wanted to spend the extra money, Kiesel is fine, but when looking at what it would cost to get something similar with a 127, my point stands.
     
  18. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Dude, let it go.

    Those guitars aren't worth comparing. You're comparing a USA based semi-custom shop to a Japanese built production guitar.

    I've been an Ibanez fan for years. Almost two decades. Everyone knows I dig them. Even I realize that unless the RG550 is EXACTLY what you want, the DC127 is a better overall value when you consider what you get for almost nothing extra.

    I think we all know a Carvin isn't an Ibanez and vice versa. This is reminding me of the old RG1527 vs C7/Loomis threads. :lol:
     
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  19. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    Max, your spellcheck keeps autocorrecting Kiesel to “Carvin.”
     
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  20. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Darn iPhone.
     

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