Kiesel models being retired 12/31/17

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by spudmunkey, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Kiesel is retiring the following models at the end of this year:

    TL60 and TL70
    • It was essentially just a tele-shaped DC127 and was more NOT a Tele than a Tele, but was Kiesel's only 'tele'-style guitar for decades. 25" scale, 24 frets, neck-through. Taking these models' place in the lineup is their newer bolt-on Solo model (which is essentially a tele-shaped Aries), which at least gives it the 25.5" scale, bolt-on construction of a "real" tele, plus 22-fret option on the 6-string, plus 8-string, extented scale and multiscale options.
    AC40 and AC50
    • Semi-hollow, neck-through acoustic-electric basses. Kiesel has retired a few of their "acoustic" guitar models from their lineup in the last year or two as sales seemed to have dropped below their threshold to keep them in the lineup. There is no replacement currently in the lineup, or announced.
    DC727
    • Kiesel's OG 7-string, and only ERG from 1999-2012, which brought the launch of the CT7. Today, (not including the ones retiring at the end of the year) they now have 10 models that are available in 6, 7 and 8 strings, most of those as extended and multiscale, and the CT7 and Holdsworth headless available in 7 string versions.
    CT74
    • They are keeping the CT7 with the standard flamed maple top, but are dropping the separate "4" model designation, which was the version that had the standard plain maple top. No word on if they are also retiring the non-topped. If they do keep that, it will be right in line with the 6-string CT, just with direct-mount pickups and alder body.
    JB207C
    • 7-string version of the Jason Becker "Bluey" tribute model. The 6-string version is already quite a departure from the 'real' "Bluey" model, what with it's 25.5" scale, different angled headstock, Floyd Rose, and all...but at least at first glance it still screamed "Jason Becker Bluey!". The 7-string, however, lacked a pronounced angled inline headstock. I think that, more than it just being a 7-string Jason Becker model (which he never played), could be the reason it maybe didn't sell well. If it had an angled inline 7, I am convinced that it would have sold better. It might have had to ship in a bass case, but I think it could have saved the model.
    UltraV7 and X227
    • The 7-string version of their two "pointy" models that were just released last year, I believe. Despite a seemly decent number of requests, and Jeff Kiesel's liking of the models, sales never really materialized once they were released. Their 6-string versions are carrying on into 2018



    In addition to the above models being retired, there is also an across-the-board price increase set to be in place 1/1/18. No word on the amount or even if it will hit all models (they typically don't change models that were just launched recently). However, they did say that the Bolt model will see a larger-than-most increase. I imagine a part of it is due to the fact that it used to come with a rosewood board and when CITES hit they upgraded it to ebony for no charge. I also have to wonder if they are going to give it standard locking tuners. It's currently the only model they offer with the non-locking tuners (save for the classical-style, nylon string NS1).

    To go along with that price increase, they have announced that every model will now come with standard stainless steel frets. You can select several different sizes of SS for free and they will still offer the EVO gold-colored frets (for a smaller upcharge than before), but their Nickel Alloy frets will no longer be available, unless you call-in and waive the 10-day trial period, and only while they still have that size fretwire left in-stock.
     
  2. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire gearwhoricus americanus

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    meh most of those models have counterparts already in their lineup so it makes sense to get rid of the redundant ones like the TL or the DC727. Making stainless frets standard is a nice touch, though I guess it depends on how much of price increase there is per model (the stainless option usually ran around 40$ on their builder).
     
  3. Albake21

    Albake21 "Just get a used Ibanez Prestige."

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    Oh come on... I was just planning a 7 string build for 2018. Really happy about the stainless steel being stock, but the price increase scares me a bit.

    Also, where is this information coming from? I can't seem to find anything anywhere.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  4. Takk

    Takk SS.org Regular

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    I'm not OP but it's from Jeff's live stream on Facebook.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  5. that short guy

    that short guy SS.org Regular

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    Well that made the decision of TL or Solo really simple lol
     
  6. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    Actually kind of super sad they are getting rid of the neckthrough tele. Not very many builders who will do that now.
     
  7. Power2theMetal

    Power2theMetal The deal was rigged

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    I can definitely see why they're getting rid of these models.
     
  8. Albake21

    Albake21 "Just get a used Ibanez Prestige."

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    Yeah their line logistically doesn't make much sense. Their are many models that are just redundant.

    By the way, I still can't find any info on this news. I've checked both Kiesel's and Jeff's pages and there was no livestream anytime recently.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2017
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  9. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger

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    :agreed:

    Really glad to see another company phasing out nickel frets in favour of SS.
     
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  10. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    I hear tell they phased out Carvin in favor of the SS, too, I tell ya what.
     
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  11. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Make sure you're looking at the actual "Kiesel Guitars Carvin Guitars" Facebook page and NOT the page for the "Kiesel Guitars Carvin Guitars Group".

    The first mention was a while ago, and he's re-mentioned it a couple of times since. Note that it wasn't a special "Price Increase Q&A" video. It was sort of just mentioned in passing (like the model retirements) in a few of the videos. Any of the videos where the thumbnail is Jeff sitting in his office, in the past 2 weeks or so, he's probably mentioned it. Again, there's no information about which models will or won't be effected, or how much the price increases will be.

    The only thing he noted was that the Bolt will see the largest increase. My hunch is that it is likely to re-balance their margins after upgrading to ebony for no charge because of CITES, and I also feel like they might get locking tuners standard so they can just jettison the "standard" non-locking tuners...although then there's the Kits...which I'm sure aren't long for this earth.
     
  12. Albake21

    Albake21 "Just get a used Ibanez Prestige."

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    Kiesel's come with ebony boards and locking tuners as a standard. Been like that for a while.
     
  13. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Yes they have...for *almost* everything.

    Ebony: For the bolt-ons, until December of 2016, the standard was rosewood. Here's their own blog post announcing the change in last December, which went into effect just before the CITES updates went into effect January of 2017. https://www.kieselguitars.com/blog/...tandard-on-all-kiesel-guitar-and-bass-models/

    Locking tuners: Also, the Bolt currently also does NOT come with locking tuners. Check the specs for yourself on the product page:
    https://www.kieselguitars.com/catalog/guitars/bolt

    "Carvin premium tuners" as opposed to the "Premium Kiesel Locking Tuners". This is not a typo, or a hold-over from when they had Carvin-branded locking tuners. The Bolt comes with these as standard:
    https://www.kieselguitars.com/products/C1C I've seen a couple of posts on the forum and Facebook where people got non-locking tuners and asked about what they could upgrade to, and mentioned they didn't realize the Bolts were different than everything else (and not just the kits, either...factory builds, too).
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  14. jclogston

    jclogston SS.org Regular

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    I'm hoping they make some of their non-standard colors (like pearl blue for example), standard. Kind of like what they did with blood red last year (and hence I pulled the trigger)....
     
  15. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Do you mean not an upcharge? Pearl blue (both the metallic, and the trans) are both 'standard' in that they are both regularly available. If they did pearl blue, they would likely do all of the metallic colors. I imagine that's the reason they are one step up. THe solid colors that are an upcharge require a white undercoat, if I remember right which means more labor/time.
     
  16. jclogston

    jclogston SS.org Regular

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    Yep that's what I meant, sorry. I remember the blood red was like $40 more but than they made it a "standard" non-upcharge color option.
    I would love to see a non-metallic dark grey or dark blue...I'd be all over it!
     
  17. kherman

    kherman SS.org Regular

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    My thought is any model that originally had the Carvin logo and was designed by Mark will eventually be on the chopping block.
     
  18. MatiasTolkki

    MatiasTolkki Burn In Agony

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    Kherman, if that's true, the X220/V220s will be offed.

    I am still bothered by the 727 discontinuation. I've played one before and it was a really nice guitar (Kiesel Endorser Kaz Horie's solo album features his DC727, the one I played, and the band he has been in for 20+ years, Vigilante, just released a new album with his A6).

    I could see the bolts being offed, since Jeff seems so bent on pushing HIS models (most of which I hate). He'll say something like, "Why offer a 22 fret bolt when the Aries can do that?" Glad I sold my E-II and kept my v220 now.
     
  19. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

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    Kinda bummed about losing the TL70 and the JB207C, but the fact is I was never going to buy one anyway. Kiesel needs to figure out a 7-string in-line headstock that isn’t hideous.
     
  20. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Then they better tell Mark to stop designing stuff. ;) He's supposed to have new pickups at NAMM, and Jeff said he's asked his dad to design at least one new model.

    Like the SC90, once the newer version came out, sales of the old ones hit the brakes and it no longer made sense to keep the old ones around. In a previous video, he mentioned a conversation about the possibility of a specific new model. I *think* it was an SH550-style bass. He agreed that it would be really cool, but to make it worth the investment and up-keep of a new model, they would need to pretty much be assured that they could sell 10 a month. With an already-existing model, one has to assume the threshold is even lower than that since they've already long-recup'ed the investment on those years ago. The vast majority of 7 string double-cuts these days seem to be the DC700 and Aries.

    Eh, I disagree. I don't see the Bolt going away unless sales dry up, like they did with the TLs, the SC90, the AC40, etc. They are even still keeping the kits around. If anything, I think the GH3 re-affirms their stance on having a Strat-styled model in the lineup.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017

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