Is Trump really gonna get there ?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

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  1. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    That's the closest you've ever come to agreeing with us. :lol:

    The good part of the summit was Trump succeeded in 1) not making things worse, and 2) ratcheting down the rhetoric and overall tension to only somewhat above where it was when he started his twitter storm.

    The bad part of the summit is we gave Kim something he wanted - a peer-to-peer meeting with the US - in return for the same vague pledge to denuclearize he's been making since 1992, and for that we agreed to stop war exercises with South Korea, much to the surprise of South Korea and evidently much of the Pentagon, neither of whom was consulted.

    This is absolutely a distraction - Trump wants something to sell as a political "win," to distract from all the other things he's botching. It's not impossible some real progress eventually comes from this... But the onus is on Trump to show that, because as of now we've made some fairly big concessions for... nothing new?
     
  2. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    What I meant was you probably shouldn't be dwelling on these tabloid type stories (insert comeback about how Trump is a tabloid like president here). But seriously, this whole russian thing is the biggest distraction.

    Thus, the grabbing at straws meme. There may be something, or there may be not. Either way, its a distraction
     
  3. mongey

    mongey SS.org Regular

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    but if there is something its a crime not a distraction. and they have charged 20 people of which 5 have plead guilty ! isn't that worth investigating. how can that be labelled a distraction ?
     
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  4. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    Because in the grand scheme of things there are much bigger things to concentrate on, I believe. And thats IF they can prove it guilty. Until then, your grabbing at straws and throwing spaghetti at walls. To me its not even worth investigating. I cannot believe people still are taking about this so called collusion
     
  5. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    It's "a distraction" if it's potentially harmful to your guy. It's "due diligence" if it's potentially harmful to the other guy.
     
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  6. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    ^ Randy, Drew, and 2 others like this :lol:
     
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  7. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

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    You can like it too in 3 years when conservatives are asking for some investigation into whatever dem candidate is up next -- it's not a partisan sentiment. Try to do better than the birther thing next time around though.
     
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  8. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    :scratch:
     
  9. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    People have plead guilty to charges relating to collusion to rig the election. Is this not your whole deal?
     
  10. thraxil

    thraxil cylon

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    In a recent court filing, Mueller's team claims that foreign individuals and organisations are continuing to "engage in interference operations like those charged in the present indictment." Ie, they attempted to interfere in the 2016 election (without speaking to how successful that interference was) and are continuing to do the same thing for the 2018 elections.

    Honestly, I don't believe that there are "much bigger things to concentrate on" than trying to secure the integrity of the American democratic process.
     
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  11. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    There is already far more evidence than even Trump's fiercest critics could have realistically hoped for in November of 2016. At this point, there IS something, it's just we don't yet know how big it is. Just routine white-collar corruption, money laundering, and below the line business dealings? Or open, knowing collaboration with a foreign power to work against the interests of the United States and fail to uphold the Constitution? In short, treason. That's what Mueller is trying to determine.

    I don't know if I agree with it. If this WAS a Russian plot to try to influence the outcome of the US election to elect the candidate they believed would be the most disruptive to the Western alliance and the rules-based international order that's broadly been in place since WWII - which it increasingly seems Trump is doing a bang-up job of doing, causing feuds with traditional close allies and cozying up to dictators while he appears be be starting a trade war - then no, I don't think there ARE bigger things to concentrate upon. This is an attack on the values this country has stood for since the close of WWI. If it was an attack whose responsibility lies at the feet of the Russian state, then yeah, that's a big fucking deal.

    In other news:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...80389a4e569_story.html?utm_term=.0fa3c9396a50

    NY AG files suit against the Trump Foundation, alleging undisclosed self-dealing, tax law violations, and illegal campaign contributions after Trump declared his candidacy. That's not a good look for a sitting President.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  12. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    The U.S. interferes singlehandedly with elections and governments all over the world since
    Sure. But id say as far as the left goes its about 5% give a shit about American Democratic process, and 95% pure boiling hatred for Trump.

    Its kind of like this meme 35227318_649689455378125_1207823208263188480_n.jpg
    Im not giving him 100%, or alot of credit for "bringing world peace", but if it were actually true, the left would still be nasty like this. Like they always are.
     
  13. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    So therefore it's OK, in your opinion? Or was that just some basic whataboutism...


    Also, chumming it up with evil dictators doesn't somehow undo or justify the illegal shit you do. Bill Clinton got impeached for lying about a blowjob.
     
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  14. Unleash The Fury

    Unleash The Fury SS.org Regular

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    No its not ok at all. But people dont blink an eye when it happens to some other nation, only us.
     
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  15. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    Just so that you know it, (though I suspect that you should but are intentionally forgetting?) an appeal to hypocrisy is not considered to be a logic-based defense. While we all certainly understand that being hypocritical ought to be shameful, that is besides the point when it comes to making an intelligent defense or argument.

    Furthermore, when America meddles with the sovereignty of foreign nations, that's usually always done without public consent, and often times it's not even really announced to the public until a reporter sniffs it out. I'd have to imagine that the majority of that stuff has never even made it on the news, and the public probably doesn't even know the full extent to which the United States Gov't fucks with other nation's elections/leadership. But as you've already agreed, in no way whatsoever is that an excuse or justification of it, and in no way whatsoever does it excuse or justify what Trump and his crew have done.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  16. jaxadam

    jaxadam SS.org Regular

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    Well it wouldn't be the first time the election process was tampered with. I mean I don't know a single person who voted for Obama last go round and look what happened.

    :highfive:
     
  17. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Yeah, how dare those other voters not in your social circle "tamper" with the election... ;)
     
  18. jaxadam

    jaxadam SS.org Regular

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    Most people I know said Obama wasn't even running in 2012, and he ended up winning anyway... So tell me, how does someone who isn't even running get elected? Sounds a little fishy, doesn't it?.
     
  19. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Tell me this: how does someone who's not running win an election that never even happened?
     
  20. jaxadam

    jaxadam SS.org Regular

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    Now you’re on to something...
     
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