Is Trump really gonna get there ?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. thraxil

    thraxil cylon

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    It's also coming out that Mueller's team has been talking to people about Trump's Russian business deals prior to his campaign.
     
  2. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    There's so much news about what questions Mueller is asking to whom and why that I'm starting to wonder what the heck is going on - is this an investigation or a circus? And please don't take that as a pro-Trump sentiment, it's just an observation that is relevant to the best interest of how justice can be served.
     
  3. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

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    ^Seems entirely within the scope of the investigation, to me? How are Trump's Russian business deals not (potentially) relevant to the investigation?
     
  4. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Yeah, this is a big complex case, a lot of I's to dot and T's to cross. Did anyone really think that his past deals with Russia weren't going to be scrutinized?
     
  5. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    It's interesting that Hope Hicks is now resigning, in the wake of questioning about her lying for the president. I thought she was a darling of Trump.
     
  6. thraxil

    thraxil cylon

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    I just get the impression that Mueller is investigating every lead. Whether Trump was actively colluding or not, we know that the Russians started attempting to influence the election quite a while ago and we also know that there are a lot of connections between Trump's businesses and people with Russian intelligence connections.
     
  7. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    The question for me is not why is Mueller asking these questions, it is why is the media reporting about every question he is asking, to whom he is asking, and why.
    In my eyes, it is in no way appropriate for his actions to be uploaded to the associated press in real time.
    Imagine if the news reported the smell of each of Ken Star's farts back in the Clinton days. It undermines the credibility of the investigation in several ways. I don't know who's responsible for this, but it's right in your face so it's hard not to notice how silly it's gotten. And by it I don't mean the leads being followed, but I mean the fact that the public is following along with every move.
     
  8. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    An investigation this big, this vital, and this popular was bound to draw attention.

    Leaks are bound to occur, and the investigation isn't completely invisible.

    I don't really think Mueller and his team are purposefully drawing attention. We only seem to find out little tidbits when either they're discovered by journalists, or actual charges are brought, which would be discovered anyway.
     
  9. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Oh, I have no problem with journalists reporting that charges were brought. I'm talking about stuff like this: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/m...siness-dealings-before-2016-report-2018-02-27 , which is deafeningly ubiquitous in my morning news feed every day.
     
  10. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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  11. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    There is no way it can be good for the investigation for everyone to know what the lead investigator is planning to do next.

    Hypothetical scenario:
    Say some guy (A) is a key witness to something someone else (B) did years ago.
    Now the news media is reporting bombastically that police are going to look into interviewing A about the incident.
    Here's what I think is likely to happen next:
    a) B kills A, no more witness
    b) B intimidates A and A reconsiders his testimony
    c) A gets nervous and flees the country
    And here's what I think is more likely if the news report didn't come out:
    d) A cooperates with the investigation, leading to charges against B
     
  12. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    They [Mueller] can't silence everyone.

    A) That won't be suspicious at all.
    B) Another crime that can leave a trail.
    C) Another suspicious activity that will bring more investigation.
    D) Isn't that the goal?
     
  13. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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  14. thraxil

    thraxil cylon

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    “Take the guns first, go through due process second,” he said.
    I just don't even know how to feel about that. After eight years of Obama being president, listening to right wingers work themselves into a frenzy about how he's coming to take their guns away and lock them up in FEMA camps or something, now there's a Republican in the White House who's saying things like that. Somehow, I doubt that the people who were so worked up about Obama are going to be as outraged about this.
     
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  15. Randy

    Randy ROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOUROOMFORYOU Super Moderator

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    Not so much 'editorializing' as much as being naive to the fact he seldom sticks to his positions on anything, especially if it's left of center.

    To the overall point, I agree with them. I might've either mentioned it in this thread or one of the gun threads, but I always thought Trump didn't really feel passionate about the issue one way or the other and that he's always had a 'they elected me because I'm the decision maker, so I'm going to do what I feel like doing and the laws can be written to follow suit' attitude.

    In that sense, I actually predicted that we'd have an egregious mass shooting he couldn't blame on an illegal immigrant or Muslim, and he'd have a bunch of sulking parents at his feet, and while I don't think he's especially empathetic, it seemed within his character to basically say "okay, how do I make these people go away?". Also, if you've read any of Trump's business books, he has some respect for 'hard nosed' negotiators from a distance, up until they try the same tactic on him. Eventually he's going to come back to Earth (especially because he's going to be stumping for midterms) but in the here and now, I bet he's probably a little sick of the threats from the NRA.
     
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  16. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I mean, isn't this basically what happened?

    It's not surprising - it's a pretty big story, and the press wants to stay ahead of it. We also know for a fact that not every move Mueller is making is being reported by the press - Popadoupalous is a perfect example, as he took a plea-bargain in June and the story didn't break until, what, August, when Manafort and Page were indicted and Mueller unsealed news of that plea-bargain as well?
     
  17. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I also think, given what we know about Trump, he took one look at the grieving parents and outraged students, and another at public opinion polls showing as much as 90%+ of the country was in favor of universal background checks and policies temporarily removing guns from the homes of people believed to be a risk to themselves and others, and thought, "Ah-HA! An easy win!"

    Mind you, I'm totally ok with that - if Trump wants to chalk up "wins" by forcing Congress to take up sensible gun control measures and use the power of the bully pulpit to try to ram them through, I'm as shocked as the next guy, but I'll take it. I still think he's a deranged psychopath in the true clinical sense, but broken clocks can still occasionally be right...
     
  18. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Someone being indicted or someone pleading guilty or such is one thing. For me, at least, having the news reporting on who Mueller is going to be interviewing next or what questions he's prepared to ask them is something at an entirely different level.

    I think you're spot on.

    I feel like I'm an extra in a Mel Brooks movie. The president (played by Mel Brooks in a silly-looking blonde wig) stands in front of his people, who are upset about the school shooting, and the president announces: "Give guns to the teachers!" The people collectively groan and the president's aide (played by Harvey Korman) pulls his sleeve and whispers "Are you sure that's a good idea? These people will try to get you impeached if you say things like that." The president then says, "Mike, if you're so smart, then why don't you do something?!" Harvey Korman then steps up to the podium and blathers something about California taking people's guns away and something about due process, and Mel Brooks interrupts, "Or, Mike, take the firearms first and then go to court. Because a lot of times, by the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process procedures. I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man's case that just took place in Florida. Oy! To go to court would have taken a long time."

    I swear I can even hear their voices when I read those quotes.
     
  19. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    I could literally hear Mel Brooks voice hahahahaha
     
  20. thraxil

    thraxil cylon

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    I think, giving them the benefit of the doubt, they're not being naive. Everyone knows that he spouts off randomly and doesn't really have solid, thought out policies and completely contradicts himself without hesitation. But what do you do about that? If you point out that trend explicitly like that, you come off as having an anti-Trump bias and it's just more ammunition for the "fake news" accusers. Rolling over and never calling him out isn't very responsible either. Instead, every single time, when he says something that we can reasonably expect him to switch position on, report it as fact, acting in good faith that he means exactly what he says. If/when he later walks it back and pretends he never said it, didn't mean it, or was joking, report that and hope that everyone not completely asleep sees the trend for themselves.
     

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