Is Trump really gonna get there ?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by mongey, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    Oh... and since you're making a strong factual claim, please post evidence for that factual claim instead of rumor and hearsay. Since you were so against that, show us what you got?

    Or are you just clutching your pearls for dramatic effect?
     
  2. jaxadam

    jaxadam SS.org Regular

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    I'll just take the advice of the second line in your sig.
     
  3. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Just curious, you know that Sanders also signed a joint fundraising agreement just like hers, two months later, right? And that Brazile, as a member of the committee, was party to that agreement, making her claim to the contrary awfully suspect?
     
  4. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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  5. jaxadam

    jaxadam SS.org Regular

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    http://www.npr.org/2017/11/03/56197...-additional-signed-agreement-with-dnc-in-2015

     
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  6. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Even then, honestly, I think Perez has the right of it - this was more a matter of a perception of impropriety than anything where Clinton would have actually been able to sway the outcome. The Clinton camp maintained a fair amount of influence in the selection of the Communications Director and other vacant research, communications, and tech rolls, by having HFA provide candidates for the DNC to choose between, as well as effectively setting up a joint partnership in setting party strategy. All the financial control stuff is limited to the Victory Account, which again is the exact same terms Bernie had.

    Does that look inappropriate? Yeah, maybe a little... But, at that point in August, it was pretty clear Biden was not going to run, Sanders was a longshot candidate polling in the teens, and the DNC was a trainwreck and $2mm in the hole. Clinton was the presumptive nominee, and while things could still have gone wrong, the other potential reason for her to sign an agreement like this one with the DNC (which included specific language allowing the DNC to make other agreements with other candidates as they see fit, and specifically calling the party to remain neutral) was simply that if she was going to spend the resources to bail them out, she wanted to make sure that the party wouldn't go and shoot themselves in the foot after she paid down their debt and started fundraising for them. Really, it speaks to Schultz' incompetence more than it does anything else. You figure if Schultz had led the party to be $2mm in the hole about 14 months from the general election, the Clinton camp had reason to be concerned about her leadership and decision making.
     
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    This piece has a direct statement provided by Schiff to Politicus USA, so no other source is provided.

    http://www.politicususa.com/2017/11...mits-meeting-high-level-officials-russia.html

    "Perhaps most important, Page — after being presented with an email he sent to his campaign supervisors, and which he did not disclose to the Committee prior to the interview and despite a subpoena from the Committee — detailed his meetings with Russian government officials and others...."

    Well.

    Apparently Carter Page informed Trump campaign officials about his efforts and his meetings, which would knock out that attempted talking point about one "coffee boy."
     
  8. Explorer

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    Also, in looking for facts supporting jaxadam's pearl-clutching, I found this:

    Brazile: I found no evidence Democratic primary was rigged - CNN

    The big fact-based headline seems to undermine the inaccurate statement from jaxadam. Me personally, I'd find it embarrassing to be wrong yet keep flailing, but we all have different personal standards on shame and accuracy....
     
  9. Viginez

    Viginez SS.org Regular

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  10. jaxadam

    jaxadam SS.org Regular

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  11. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    Am I alone in thinking the DNC selling out to cover $2 million in debt sounds a little cheap, considering all the money that gets thrown around in an election year?
     
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  12. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    It's worth keeping in mind though that while Warren has had no problem calling the election "rigged" against Sanders, Braizile has been vocal about calling people out, Trump included, who claim she called it "rigged." She's been adamant that while she thinks Clinton may have had an inappropriate amount of influence, she doesn't think it was rigged.

    That's a totally fair point, and IMO, another reason to take these allegations with a grain of salt. So too is why Clinton would even bother trying to "rig" the election, considering at that point in the cycle her only competitor was a long-shot Socialist from Vermont, that people were mostly glad was running just so there'd be SOME sort of debate. :lol: If she wasn't legitimately concerned about getting the DNC back on secure footing, why not just go it alone, and not direct ANY money into a joint account (...you know, kinda like what Sanders did? :lol:)
     
  13. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    You're right, I generally tune out anything from Fox or Breitbart, for the simple fact that both outlets (especially Breitbart, home of Bannon) are partisan hatchet jobs. :lol:
     
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    Here's an amusing shredding of the sloppy conservative talking points behind the Uranium One story, no innuendo needed, just facts.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...debunk_lies_around_uranium_clinton_story.html

    Facts are not a viewpoint.

    Remember, Jen Kerns was forced to walk back her vague claims in the face of actual facts.
     
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  16. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    So, um, last night's election... :lol:

    Counter-factual arguments are always tough, and on one hand, I know it doesn't sound important when you talk about a slew of special elections after Trump's election where the Democrats significantly outperformed expectations based on demographic factors... yet still consistently came up short and didn't win a single seat. Last night, however, provides some factual evidence to accompany that counter-factual. New Jersey shouldn't have been close, and ended up a blowout. Virginia saw the Democrats at a modest advantage, and ended with Northam winning by nearly double digits. And the VA House of Delegates was considered so out of play that the only time I heard it mentioned in pre-election coverage was how basically no one considered it remotely possible to flip to Democratic control, and yet if current results hold after a recount, the Democrats flipped it from 34-66 to 50-50, and may actually have an outright majority after the recount (the closest race favored the Republican by 12 votes).

    There's still a year to go until 2018 and a lot could happen between now and then, but there was a quietly growing body of evidence that the Democratic party was poised for a mid-term wave, and last night's voting, especially in Virginia, just brought that evidence out into the open. Encouragingly, the GOP seems to be taking the wrong lesson, that despite running a pro-Confederate anti-immigrant campaign, his problem was that he didn't embrace Trump enough. The senate is going to be tough, but I think it's hard not to argue that, at least as of today, the Democrats are favored to take back the House in midterms.
     
  17. thraxil

    thraxil cylon

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    Fox News and the like have been spinning it as being because he didn't embrace Trump enough, to save some face but I think most Congress Critters who are up for election in 2018 are paying closer attention and can see through that. GOP candidates in even remotely competitive districts need to be considering whether they continue aligning themselves with Trump or stand up to him like Collins, McCain, etc. There's a very real possibility that something egregious can come out of the Mueller investigation that makes impeachment a possibility. If this election had gone the other way, they might be more inclined to close ranks and block it. Now, I'd wager that if it comes down to it, quite a few would turn on him.
     
  18. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I HOPE Fox and Breitbart convince the GOP that where they went wrong wasn't going too far towards Trump, but rather they didn't go far ENOUGH. It'll make a 2018 electoral wave that much more likely. :lol:

    It's funny, the Mueller investigation... When it started, even up to the point where Trump fired Comey, I didn't have terribly high expectations that something truly damning would come up. And then, Trump Jr. tweeted out screenshots of his emails about the meeting with the Russian lawyer, and sure as shit, he freely admitted the campaign tried to collude with Russia. :lol: With Manafort and Gates being charged and from the sound of it both Flynn and his son next, and with Popadoupalos providing evidence that he DID pitch to a campaign meeting involving both Sessions and Trump that he had Russian contacts who wanted to meet with them (contradicting both of their statements), I'd sat from a purely Bayesian standpoint the probability is quite a bit higher that there are skeletons in Trump's closet here.
     
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    Mueller's questioning of Stephen Miller regarding the initial draft of the Comey firing letter shows that obstruction of justice is a clear target of the Mueller investigation. The first draft, and Trump's own statements in interviews, show that Trump fired Comey due to the Russia investigation, in order to stop it.
     

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