International Men's Day

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by BucketheadRules, Nov 1, 2015.

  1. BucketheadRules

    BucketheadRules Fuzz pedal hoarder

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    A male member of British parliament raised some issues he wanted to be discussed on the forthcoming International Men's Day (19th of November).

    http://i100.independent.co.uk/artic...debate-proves-her-point-perfectly--ZyB4DwB_dx

    He was mocked and laughed at by a female MP for even suggesting such a thing.

    This isn't a popular viewpoint it seems, but I disagree entirely with the female MP - the abuse she received from trolls as a result is vile and inexcusable, but the actual criticism she's faced is entirely fair - I think she was being a d*ck. Male victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse have almost no-one to turn to, and are often mocked and belittled. Men's suicide rates are far higher than women's, and the majority of murder victims and victims of other violent crimes are men. The vast majority of prison populations are men (and women tend to receive far more lenient sentences for the same crime). Men work longer hours in more dangerous jobs (96% of workplace deaths in the UK are men) and will usually come off a lot worse in custody battles or divorce settlements, sometimes even if the circumstances seem to favour them. Religious mutilation of a baby boy's genitals (i.e. non-surgical circumcision) is widely accepted where female genital mutilation is rightly abhorred.

    All those are very serious issues, and I don't understand why there's so little attention given to them. Feminists usually claim their concern is for gender equality... if that was the case, wouldn't they be up in arms about this? It seems to me that a lot of feminists nowadays actually want female superiority, and are totally fine with accepting gender-based double standards and injustices when it suits them. I prefer the idea of... you know... actual gender equality.

    So I was happy to find that someone else has similar feelings to mine about this particular example.

    What's so funny about a men's rights debate? - Telegraph

    The usual thing you hear is "Well there's a Black History Month, do you want a White History Month as well?" or "Well there's Gay Pride, do you support Straight Pride?" But that's bull...., because comparing those two with International Men's Day suggests that men are ALWAYS the oppressors and women are ALWAYS the oppressed, a view which does neither gender any favours. And the classic "I thought EVERY DAY was International Men's Day" which is just callous and cruel... why don't you ask a male rape victim that question and see how it goes down.

    No-one's claiming women have it all their own way - obviously there are loads of gender-based issues they face (which, to be fair, are talked about constantly). But you can't deny it or sweep it under the rug - men face gender discrimination too, in other ways, and it's just as serious and just as worthy of our attention.

    I hate the culture feminism has created, of making men feel ashamed of ourselves and unable to talk about any of this stuff without being thought of as a misogynist, or "part of the problem". All it does is perpetuate the issues, and it also exposes modern-day feminism as a deeply hypocritical and, yes, bigoted movement. Guess what, sexism is still a thing when it's aimed at men, and guess what else - that means a lot of supposedly pro-equality feminists are deeply sexist, with the irony being apparently totally lost on them.

    So I'm not a feminist. I'm not a misogynist either. I'm just a man and I believe in truly EQUAL rights for everyone. That means that if I think International Women's Day is important, I should think International Men's Day is important too, and I do. I know the reasons for its existence and I agree wholeheartedly. I hope I'm not alone here.
     
    vilk, The Q and Baelzebeard like this.
  2. MFB

    MFB ExBendable

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    I move we eliminate International Women's Day, don't create International Men's day, and instead we create International Equality Day. Cat-call every person you see - man or woman! - and there's no wage gap for the entire day, regardless of where you work. Men can finally be free to show off a little bit of the goods, and women can react accordingly without being called a b!tch.

    It'll be amazing.

    edit: what a way to break into the 11K club.
     
  3. Alex Kenivel

    Alex Kenivel Psycho, dont engage

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    [​IMG]

    all she needs is a haircut and she could come celebrate International men's day with us too!
     
  4. Eliguy666

    Eliguy666 V's are Just Better

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  5. Eliguy666

    Eliguy666 V's are Just Better

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    The big issue here is that the sort of feminism you're thinking of is a less than minuscule proportion of the movement but one that is easy to vilify. All of the issues that you claim feminists ignore (genital mutilation, sexual assault, custody fairness, labor conditions, racial equality, etc.) are things that are in fact focuses of the movement.

    If you don't believe me, here's an array of feminist literature which approaches all of the above issues in not-unfavorable ways.

    Circumcision:
    Circumcision Is a Feminist Issue (And Here Are 5 Reasons Not to Do It to Your Child)
    Feminism and male circumcision

    Sexual violence against men:
    There's a Rape Epidemic in America That No One Is Talking About: Debunking 4 Myths About Male Survivors
    Myths about rape (See "Myth: Men don't get raped and women don't commit sexual offences.")
    Feminism 101 « Center For Relationship Abuse Awareness (See "A NOTE ON TERMINOLOGY")

    Custody fairness (which does not actually hold up statistically; when custody is disputed, gender does not play a significant statistical role in how it is awarded):
    Bias Against Fathers in the Family Courts
    The 8 Biggest Lies Men's Rights Activists Spread About Women - Mic

    Labor conditions:
    https://muse.jhu.edu/journals/nlf/summary/v020/20.1.boris.html
    Why Labor Union Rights Are a Feminist Issue
    Suzanne Franzway and Mary Margaret Fonow | S&F Online | Toward a Vision of Sexual and Economic Justice

    Racial Equality:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality (See "Feminist Thought")
    If We Divide, We Don
    Feminism F.A.Q.s: What is Anti-Racism and How Does it Relate to Feminism? | Gender Focus
     
  6. coffeeflush

    coffeeflush SS.org Regular

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    Calling a female mp a dick because she made fun of males rights. While I get your meaning, it is too ironic and funny.

    More on topic, I think this video is relevent to the thread. I personally know a few victims as well
     
  7. UnderTheSign

    UnderTheSign SS.org Regular

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    I'm all for something like this, but only if it actually focuses on the issues you mentioned. The thing with stuff like talking about male rape though, is that the only time I ever see people bring it up is when they're trying to debate feminism... I see dudes go "well why don't you care about the men that get raped? That's not equality!" all the time, yet none of them have ever brought outside of discussions on feminism.
     
  8. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I know we'd all like to believe that, but I don't. Internet comments are one thing, but I've never met someone in person that demonstrated the kind of thinking you're suggesting. The environment is such that you can't talk about mens issues at all. Even here on SSO, where most appear to have a pretty open mind, I got tore a new one in an old thread for making similar suggestions to whats in this thread.

    You can say the the movement is "really about x", but it doesn't matter if the vocal people moving things forward don't follow that ideal/standard. It's just the whole no-true-Scotsman thing. Even googling no-true-scotsman tried to autocomplete the word feminism onto the end (I'm serious, try it).
     
  9. Mike

    Mike The Traveler Contributor

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    Brought this to mind:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Eliguy666

    Eliguy666 V's are Just Better

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    The question is whether my impression of feminism as a feminist who discusses issues with other feminists is credible, or if your impression as a person with only tangential relation to the movement is credible.
     
  11. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    My relation to the movement is both unknown to you, and irrelevant to the conversation. You don't have to be a feminist to talk to other feminists or to see the impact it has on people and how it has done a lot of shaping of the cultural narrative lately.
     
  12. Eliguy666

    Eliguy666 V's are Just Better

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    Even from the least partial view point possible each one of those statements is untrustworthy.
     
  13. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I have no idea what you're trying to say. You don't need to trust me. It's my opinion that feminism is very guilty of the whole "no-true-scotsman" thing. You likely have the opposite opinion. You trusting my opinion has nothing to do with anything.
     
  14. Eliguy666

    Eliguy666 V's are Just Better

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    Please elaborate. It seems more like you're controlling the set with the same attitude that you're trying to criticize by claiming that the movement is characterized by the incredible minority of which you speak because that makes you feel smugger.
     
  15. BucketheadRules

    BucketheadRules Fuzz pedal hoarder

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    Even if it is a minority, it's an extremely vocal one because it seems like most of the feminist rhetoric I see on the internet is cruel sexist garbage.
     
  16. asher

    asher So Did We

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    And all the Islam I see in the news is ISIS, but the extreme minority has little bearing on the concept itself.
     
  17. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    Tried it out of curiosity and it didn't work.

    I don't have really anything to add to the conversation as I'm kind of falling asleep as I'm typing. Tomorrow when I have a clearer mind.
     
  18. Eliguy666

    Eliguy666 V's are Just Better

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    :scratch:
    The kind of person that you think a feminist is is a historical fabrication dating back well beyond the suffrage movement even existed.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    You guys are making a lot of assumptions about what I supposedly think a feminist is. I didn't say they were evil or man hating or controlling people or anything like that. I said that they commonly like to pull the whole "only a REAL feminist... etc., feminism is REALLY about.... etc etc." whenever there's a disagreement on what the group as a whole is supposed to stand for (for which I honestly see no consensus), and that any kind of social/internet context has seen a lot of feminist influence lately. Are you denying that there's a lot of arguments over what feminism stands for, or that feminism comes up in conversation a lot? Are we going to deny that feminism is having an impact on what people do or don't think is appropriate or fair? And so far, you've not really made any kind of argument against any of what I said- instead you chose to try to attack my character and miss my point.

    You're almost proving the point in the OP. As soon as I suggest that I might be opposed to some feminist ideas- I become the bad guy who "doesn't understand". You're searching for some kind of malicious deeper meaning in every comment:

    There's nothing to elaborate about. Feminism, for better or worse, has shaped a significant part of the current social narrative in a lot of places. The fact that we're even having this conversation is all the elaboration you need. OP simply wanted to point out that maybe we shouldn't be laughing at mens issues- but somehow some people have interpreted feminism to mean that we can or should, and I agree about that being bad. That doesn't make me evil, that doesn't make feminism as a whole evil. It means nothing more than exactly what is says. No sub-context, no hidden messages.
     
  20. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Also:
    scotsman.jpg

    Works at work and at home. I didn't make it up. Maybe it's a geographical thing, or google knows it's me and tailors my results, either way.
     

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