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Discussion in 'Recording Studio' started by yidcorer, Jun 6, 2011.
So what did we learn?
Several members are obsessed with axe fx's and djent records, both positive and negative....
I always demo my original tunes, work on them and rerecord for the final mix, as it should be. So production is the final stage in the development of my material and is not a consideration until the song is demo'd.
Enough about me. What is the general opinion on Genre Production Techniques?
Clearly Metal as a genre holds many guidelines for production. Depending on the material an era during which it would have been popular can be conjured up in mixing. An obvious example would be Death Metal; make it sound vintage or it's not Death. To me a Death mix is quite a specific thing, I don't mean to step on toes here. Personally, I prefer Death without a Death mix (old skool lo fi mix).
So here is my question; If a production is true to the genre trends of an artist's influences but fails to capture the attention of modern audiences, is this artist making production choices at the expense of the music?
Identity Vs. popular mixes / Risk Vs. Reward / Integrity Vs. Popular appeal
If anything, I'm guilty of making hi-fi mixes which present the music well but lack overall character. Friends of mine use weird and wonderful ways of mixing and have a distinct identity to their product (identifiable mix tone, not the music) using techniques I certainly would not use... Where's the envy emoticon!!! It'd be nice to switch between character and full range at will.
I think the G*A*S* debate has been pretty well covered and I agree that it is a hinderance to the progress of guitarists just beginning to write and find their own voice, being so concerned about outside forces rather than their hands, minds and creativity in writing. Gear IS the point of a studio.
I think you completely missed the point and just restated "I like the Axe-FX. It's great." Leading the way of future music production? No, not at all. People have been using PODs forever, and plenty of people use free amp sims with IRs already too. Some of those free amp sims actually sound better than the Axe-FX for modern metal, IMO. The bands are popular because they write good music and can play their instruments well. I like these bands. I've already said that. That doesn't instantly make their albums "great productions"... Listen to what Joey Sturgis does with a POD. Listen to Paul Wardingham's amazing album Assimilate Regnerate recorded all with a POD.
Anyways, home production in general is the future of music, but it doesn't have to be amp sims, and these amp sims aren't better than what we have already. In fact, the majority of the most highly respected professional producers in modern metal are still miking up cabs and the quality of those albums stands on its own. It doesn't cost a fortune to record DIs to later send off to someone to reamp if you really can't mic up a cab yourself.
this threa is going to always come full circle there's no real right or wrong going on here
an amatuer can do all programmed drums, amp sims and IR's and turn out some damn good sounding product, and that's fantastic, cus really not all of us can afford a multitude of mics, a drum kit, consoles, different amps/cabs and so on, for what sims and irs and programmed drums are right now, they sound good, defiintely not the line 6 shit of the days of old. and obviously not miced drum and cabs, but it's getting there.
and i love miced up kits/cabs, their sound is still amazing and i would never want to see that given up
but really in the end i still care if it sounds good to me
You've completely missed the point of my post.
My reason on choosing the AxeFx was merely an example, not to contradict any POD recordings, simply because well... the unit is pretty popular in this forum. Nothing more. You've focused far too much on the AxeFx/POD debate, it seems you're only validating the OP even more.
You also said it yourself. The bands are good because the music is good and you like them. And no, it doesn't always make their albums great production. That is a key factor to what makes an album good. It's a powerful tool, but it should not be the main focus over music. It becomes the focus once the music is solidified. That's what countless hours of writing/jamming/practicing and pre-production is for.
To be frankly honest, I couldn't care less whether it's real amps or amps sims are used in home production, or any production for the matter. PODs, AxeFx, a Pignose, you can use whatever you have to, want and can afford. As long as you get the sound you're trying to achieve in your music... and your music has to be good enough before going through the production gauntlet.
LOL, I was being sarcastic.
Well it's not the other way around either. Louder sometimes works wonders IMO.
Dudes I ended the thread on page 1
^ I disagree with your post on page 1
Well, partially anyway.
Yes, it can make a great riff sound amazing, or help that drumkit stand out, however I also believe just how much or how good the production is or needs to be is definitely dependent on the market of the music, the style of the music, and the aim of the musicians.
For example; Let's take, say, Dead Kennedys and give them absolutely pristine production and that perfect guitar tone. Seems wrong, no? For once the shithouse mix and all those hodgepodge grouping of elements actually seems appropriate. On the flip side though, I would agree that if you took something like Periphery but gave their music the Dead Kennedys/punk approach something would be seriously lacking.
All things in context
Doesn't sound like you disagree to me, I agree with your post wholeheartedly. I was talking about the obvious specific context of metal, which is what most of us are here to discuss.
Ah, it felt like you were talking in a much more general sense
DAMN YOU, INTERWEB AND YOUR LACK OF CONTEXT
My brain thinks that bands striving for perfect productions wouldn´t be listened to by anyone if their albums were poorly produced. Sturgiscore-bands, I am looking at you
^ I agree on the Sturgiscore part, but I know some perfectly...err... perfect bands that stive for perfect production and still have great musical content, like, go listen to Devin Townsend or Gojira in 240p on Youtube, still good music. So your thinking only applies to 'some' bands
I just listened to Attack Attacks self titled and I have to say, Joey Sturgis is a genius.
I'm being serious.
He is genious. @Antenna, he's not a part of Attack, Attack, but their producer.
lol I know who Joey Sturgis is bro. I actually didn't like that album to be honest and not just because its that band, even production wise not my cup of tea. Vocals and drums were pretty well done though. I mainly just thought that was funny because it was Attack Attack. I mean he's done some better bands, and his solo stuff is fuckin AWESOMETASTIC! No offense to any one.
But is the producer that decides to stick to a formula...a good producer?
Also, does he always use sampled drums or does he actually work on tweaking real ones?
why does that matter?