I think people nowadays care more about production than about the music...

Discussion in 'Recording Studio' started by yidcorer, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. yidcorer

    yidcorer Banned

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    Yes. If you think about it, most influential albums/bands had records with terrible production. You may say "back in the day, recording devices were primitive and lo-fi sounding". Probably, but if a not-famous James Hetfield could travel in time and post on this forum some samples from "...and justice for all", people would bash the guitar tone, the lack of bass and the drums.

    The same would happen with great metal/rock albums whose audio quality isn´t pristine. You know what? People didn´t care, and you shouldn´t care either. The music is there and that´s all that matters at the end of the day. Of course, noise in a recording and mediocre playing are tabus, but I still don´t understand why people nowadays care if some kHz are out of place, if some frequencies are boosted while others are being cutted off.

    Will the non-musicians who listen to your stuff care? Or do you think you can achieve a perfect mix? There isn´t such a thing. Not even Bulb, who is hailed on guitar forums for making an actually good job on Periphery´s debut, is known for making perfect mixes. While many dig his music and admire his producing abilities, there are still quite a few that will be quick to point at the things they don´t like about his recordings/mixes.

    The same can be said about Animals as Leaders. The debut album is full of inspiring tunes and ideas, so does anyone really care about the clipping guitars, fake drums, fake amps and compressed sound? No, and who should?

    If you read all that, I say "thank you". And excuse the broken English. :yesway:
     
  2. natspotats

    natspotats SS.org Regular

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    bravo my good sir :yesway:
     
  3. SirMyghin

    SirMyghin The Dirt Guy Contributor

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    I agree completely that production is a bit over focussed, however in converse learning production tricks, particularly around here, has improved the overall percieved quality of what I can turn out from my home studio.
     
  4. flo

    flo SS.org Regular

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    Funny what you say about the aal sound, i've got the album on my mp3-player, and the guitar sounds so damn clear, it makes everything else sound muddy in comparison :D And I love the sound!

    I think that sound is important, but like you say, the rest of the music is what's really interesting and important. like having something to say compared to what voice you've got.
     
  5. Scar Symmetry

    Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch

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    The production is a medium to deliver the intensity and emotional impact the music makes, so I believe that yours is a moot point. Good production can make a good riff sound amazing, I firmly believe that. Why do you think so many albums get remastered? Production is like films, you're never going to take a step back in terms of quality because it just doesn't make sense.

    I'm also sick of people trying to make "raw" records because it's so contrived, it's such a hipster mentality. Good production delivers good music, and if you have both then you've won. If you have one of the two, chances are you are interesting to listen to, but you won't be listened to as much as albums that have both.
     
    Prydogga likes this.
  6. KingAenarion

    KingAenarion Resident Studio Nerd

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    I think it's a small circle of musicians only though.

    MOST musicians know very little about recording and production...

    Within the Metal scene, and particularly with guitar, it's quite a big deal, simply because to understand how to get that sound of your favourite band there's a lot more involved than with, say, Angus Young.

    I mean look at the likes of Metallica's backstage guitar rig... then look at Angus Youngs. Guitar> Amp turned up really loud.... that's it.

    Or an Indie band who's guitarist just uses his guitar > pedalboard with some FX into a Fender Twin.
     
  7. Customisbetter

    Customisbetter WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot Contributor

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    I thought the AAL album sounded great. The only late album that disappointed me production-wise was Circa Survives latest effort which had noticable clipping a couple times. other than that mixes and overall tracks on htis forum alone sound miles better than that abomination that is Death Magnetic.
     
  8. AlphaSenate

    AlphaSenate SS.org Regular

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    I totally agree, I think that production has a huge role to play in todays music, unfortunately for some musicians, whatever be the genre this heavy focus can lead to a hampering of creativity, "I mean, yeah great tone but my god that riff sucks". Also in an effort to provided the best medium to deliver your message it can get lost. I guess the trick is experience, knowing the tricks and such but isn't that why we had producers? "Wait! I wanna make tunes at home" I hear you cry!. And you'd be right. We can't all hire "Mr Tonemaster Mcfatass Snare" to get our tunes banging so we listen, we tweak to get it sounding good... no forgive me, get it sounding amazing. Good isn't enough these days.

    And here in lies my main point, whatever you may feel about production its here to stay, why? The public. People need to hear highly polished recordings or they switch off, they don't care that none of the original band actually played, as long as it fits in with what they consider modern.
     
  9. Ben.Last

    Ben.Last Formerly Lern2Swim

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    It's a matter of balance. There's such a thing as focusing too much or too little on production in relation to what the music is saying.
     
  10. Bloody_Inferno

    Bloody_Inferno Silence is Violence

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    IMO, it really depends on the music at the end of the day.

    I do agree that production is a medium to deliver the intensity and emotional impact the music makes. Do the listeners care? Superficially, no. But really they do. You can hear radio friendly rock/pop music from a mile away. Even casual listeners were complaining about Death Magnetic. But there's more to it, because it's still about the music.

    Today's standards, everything needs to be highly produced. That's why guys like John Feldman doesn't bother with analog production at all. He once stated that kids nowadays have become acustomed to the digital sound and that "warm analog" of the past just sounds muffled. Then again, John Feldman's credits include a majority of generic radio rock bands. All of them really are just that, aimed specifically for radio airplay. Feldman knows that, and he will make all the bands he produces/co-writes with aware of that. It's subjective if their songs are good or bad, but they've extremely well produced and taylor made for the radio.

    But of course all of today's standards requires an alternative. The garage rock movement was the response of "over-produced" music. So there's another choice there too. I can't really imagine the Strokes to be full of massive production values (well maybe the third album), but then again I was never a fan of the Strokes to begin with. :lol:

    Then again, some rough and raw bands actually benefit very well from production. Nirvana's Nevermind, is produced by Butch Vig after all. And the last few Kings Of Leon albums actually sound like the band is playing directly in front of you.

    But 'good' production is subjective as well. The majority of this forum caught in a djent bubble heralds Periphery's production as the metal equivalent of the Second Coming of Christ, but to many others, Periphery is very cold and sterile... one even commented as almost n00bish production techniques. No disrespect to bulb of course, but I understand both sides of the spectrum. Periphery, and a majority of the djent music out there in general, actually benefit from this kind of sound. Be it, completely cold, sterile, clear, digital, whatever the listener describes it, their music calls for it. It works for them. Remember when bulb mentioned how his guitar sound is meant to be cold and mechanic and may not work for other musicians.

    The same goes with a lot of any music to do with Colin Richardson/Andy Sneap/Matt Hyde and the like. Notice that a lot of their bands are mostly of Thrash/Death nature? And it's great for them. My band's latest album is being engineered by Matt Hyde, and while I won't reveal any secrets, it's safe to say that it's geared towards thrash, and may not work with other kinds of metal. Pantera albums... another side of the story. Scooped guitars on tap, by many standards that sound is garbage, but works best with Pantera, and hence one of the most sought after metal tones of the 90s.

    And the biggest example of them all: The Black Album. A year and a half, and 3 marriages later, Metallica released what is still considered by many as one of the best produced albums of all time. There are many many MANY factors: multi tracked guitars, backing vocals, string sections, subtle instrument parts...etc, all to make the album sound huge.

    But regardless of all of the above, if the song calls for a bit more attention in production, by all means do so. But at the same time, the old saying goes: no matter how hard you try, you can't polish a turd.
     
  11. btfsam

    btfsam Banned

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    I think before we bashed it we would help him with the mix/tone etc.
    I love a good sounding production almost as much as I love good playing, just sounds good to the ears. Can either one of these make up for one another? No
     
  12. Thep

    Thep Blast & Sweep

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    Listen to the remakes of Suffocation classics on recent records compared with the originals and tell me production doesn't matter....
     
  13. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Bird Law expert

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    This is definitely true. I once had someone argue with me that they didnt like An Endless Sporadic because of the production value (this was before the full length was released, and he was only going by the demos quality).
    This wouldn't have bothered me, except I KNEW if it had pro-quality recording on it he would have loved it, because the music was right up his alley...
     
  14. Yaris

    Yaris Beaver Sack #2

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    I have thought about this before, but when I listen to music, I find enjoyment in hearing things that sound good. Both the music and the production can contribute to how good something sounds, giving me pleasure. Of course, different kinds of music benefit from different styles of production.
     
  15. FOAM

    FOAM SS.org Regular

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    Well, in the 80's Metallica's production was probably above average anyways. I agree on you to some extent. Music IS more important than the mix, but there needs to be a balance. Metallica's early production doesn't sound too bad and the great music makes me forget about it, but if the production was even worse - like garage bad - I wouldn't bother... I don't know where I'm going with this, I'm just going to shut up, lol.
     
  16. tr0n

    tr0n djent n00b

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    This is so true, it's one of the few basic rules I believe about production. I believe pre-production is vital, because that's where stuff like composition and arrangements etc are investigated. But for post-production, (not that self-produced guys necessarily think of it this way), it's more of a vehicle that frames the music and prepares it for delivery. You get so many people on forums like these posting 'mix-tests' or a new song every five minutes. It seems to me that people are trying to appear prolific because that was a bit like what Bulb was when he was starting out. The exception is that Bulb's stuff was just brilliant, and you can't assume that the loudness/static dynamics of his production are what got him to where he is. I would encourage anyone to think more about what they're actually composing and worry about the production later. As Andy Sneap said, so long as stuff is well recorded, a song should theoretically mix itself. And here you insert the quote above.
     
  17. Ben.Last

    Ben.Last Formerly Lern2Swim

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    Mythbusters actually disproved that. :fawk:
     
  18. JamesM

    JamesM The Armada

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    TL;DR, but I 115% agree with the thread title.
     
  19. Antenna

    Antenna Oh God Damnit!

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    A gorgeous girl takes a picture of herself naked with a shitty cellphone, guys say "wow she's fucking hott!".

    Same girl takes the same shot but with an HD camera and photoshops it, Everyone faints due to zero blood flow to their head. /thread.
     
  20. JamesM

    JamesM The Armada

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    While I think that's a valid argument, I think that's missing the point.
     

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