Hyper-tonic Scales (Specifically Two-Octave)

Discussion in 'Music Theory, Lessons & Techniques' started by ElRay, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,482
    Likes Received:
    670
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
    I know this is a sub-set of the Synthetic Scale Thread, but I'm looking at a specific sub-set: Two-Octave Scales. What prompted this was my recent dive into 5ths-based tuning (specifically Tripp's NST). What I noticed that playing four sequential frets in one position covers two octaves in four strings:
    Code:
    0  7 14 21
    1  8 15 22
    2  9 16 23
    3 10 17 24
    I've started some trial and error (e.g. standard tuning minor pentatonic pattern on a NST guitar), but I'd like a bit more "understanding" -- I'm not good with trial and error stuff. I found some stuff by Colette Mourey, but all the "texts" are in French, and I haven't had a chance to digest the scores I've found.

    One thing I have noticed is that everything I've tried has a 3rd/4th every third note or so. I can reduce that to a whole or whole-half by sliding down a fret or two every time I move up a string:
    Code:
               20
               21
            15 22
            16 23
         10 17 24
         11 18
       5 XX 19
       6 13
    0  7 14
    1  8
    2  9
    3
    I haven't played around with this yet, but then again, I'll be back in trial and error land.
     
  2. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear Vendor

    Messages:
    10,860
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Southend-on-Sea, Essex, U.K
    Sounds interesting! I'll have to check these out. The skipping of the 4th and 5th in box shapes was always my main aversion to 5ths tuning but it can lead to interesting results and of course be avoided by shifting like you noted.

    I absolutely love two octave scales. Been abusing the hell out of them. Though it's quite a change in mindset, given we usually don't really care about the octave in which notes are placed (general voicing considerations aside). What I mean is, what differentiates these scales from the cluttered octave-condensed versions, unless we are only playing them as consecutive runs or in consistently stacked voicings? I don't have an answer to that myself, so that approach is exactly what I've been doing haha. It sounds very nice.
    Another thing I'm into is symmetric scales, and I've found these two go nicely hand in hand. For example flip Lydian around its root and you get Locrian - so we can chain Locrian and Lydian together into a symmetric two-octave scale. It's a really interesting sound. You can almost hear the mirror point when you reach the octave. Each one sort of neutralises the other in succession, e.g locrian sounds a lot more pleasant (to me at least) played after lydian. Lydian sounds darker played after locrian. It's as if you can hear you are playing a mirrored version of the other scale, so hear its qualities rather than the usual ones.
    I haven't yet explored two octave scales that do not include the octave in the middle, though !
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  3. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,482
    Likes Received:
    670
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
    :scratch: If you just stay in a four-fret span, you get the P5 on the lower-half, but you lose it on the upper. One reason I love All-M3rds tuning is that you have a full octave in three strings. The big down-side is that it's not too good for Me,Myself&I playing.
    That's what I'm shooting for.

    Actually, the M3rds segue gives me an idea. I can take the "standard" patterns for an All-M3rds tuning and play them. Then I can tweak/shift if the pitch class repetition (which should be minimal) or the M3-to-b5-sized gaps become problems.
     
    Winspear likes this.
  4. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear Vendor

    Messages:
    10,860
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Southend-on-Sea, Essex, U.K
    My bad, I really meant major 3rd and 4th haha. It makes scalar runs stretchy, essentially.
    Indeed, 3rds tuning is very interesting for keeping things super close so long as you are comfortable with playing across the strings more.
     
  5. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,482
    Likes Received:
    670
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
  6. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear Vendor

    Messages:
    10,860
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Southend-on-Sea, Essex, U.K
    Thanks for sharing, that looks very interesting! I'm keen to buy the bundle. I like what he mentions about making use of useless 1 octave scales as part of 2 octave scales. I documented every possible 7-note scale and found lots of said useless ones so I'd be keen to see his full scale list too and method for combining them into multi octave scales!
     
  7. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

    Messages:
    3,133
    Likes Received:
    251
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Location:
    Dutchess County, NY
    I’ve seen a few Masaya Yamaguchi books I was interested in, and I’ve heard only positive things from players who’ve used those books.
     
    ElRay likes this.

Share This Page