Holder unprepared for Senate Judiciary Committee

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by RenegadeDave, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. RenegadeDave

    RenegadeDave Huge nerd

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    Randy likes this.
  2. xXxPriestessxXx

    xXxPriestessxXx One Among the Fence Contributor

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    It is a pretty obvious question although I am not really sure it matters in this case. Even if we go about KSM's trial as federal instead of military, he is still going to be found guilty. As far as intelligence gathering goes, we have had this guy in custody for 5 years. If we haven't gotten intelligence from him yet we probably aren't going to. :shrug: Personally, I would rather just like to see this taken care of instead of this debate on the hill.
     
  3. orb451

    orb451 Banned

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    Mr. Holder is an idiot. If left to go down this path our military will have yet another bunch of bullshit to hamstring them and prevent them from getting their job done.

    I can't believe this guy is the Attorney General.
     
  4. TruthDose

    TruthDose SRS BIDNIZZ

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    Where was Tim McVeigh tried?


    If KSM is tried publicly there could be new developments into 9/11 re-investigation.
    That's assuming that he supplied with a decent defense attourney :lol:
     
  5. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    This isn't 200-and-fucking-4 anymore. Seriously. There aren't different rules for pursuing a case against somebody just because they're a terrorist, and there shouldn't be. :rolleyes:
     
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  6. RenegadeDave

    RenegadeDave Huge nerd

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    Apparently the prosecutor would have to share a lot of would-be classified information with respect to how a lot of evidence was gathered.

    I'm admittedly a click north of naive on the differences. With respect to how he's tried, it's a huge gray area to me as to where/how he was apprehended for how he should be tried. If he was apprehended locally, it'd be pretty cut and dried how we should try him, but if he was apprehended in a foreign theater of operations then i think it's pretty clear it should be a military tribunal. Either way, something should have happened by now. That's my read anyway.

    To be honest, I don't even remember to the circumstances of how he was apprehended. I'm more shocked that Holder walked into the most obvious and predictable question he could be asked unprepared.
     
  7. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    Ramzi Yousef - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    :guns: that argument
     
  8. RenegadeDave

    RenegadeDave Huge nerd

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    Yeah, I guess I should clarify, *by the military* in a foreign theater of operations (meaning specifically an area of the world where we had our little "war on terror" waged). That's not a perfect example you cited as the '93 bombing didn't lead to us launching our hugely expensive campaign of rearranging rocks in the country side of Afghanistan. Also he ('93 bomber) was apprehended by Diplomatic Security Agents, not military regulars (I'm guessing KSM was apprehended by some branch of the armed services, again I don't know and am too lazy to look it up).

    There's no part of me that will weep if a non-US citizen terrorist apprehended outside of the US border is tried, convicted and sentenced in a military tribunal. At this point I'm more interested in the end result than the means.

    I'd hardly say that your excerpt pokes holes as there isn't much parity, assuming he was caught by military forces. Also the "wartime" environment blurs the lines even more.

    and again, I don't recall the circumstances leading to KSM's apprehension. regardless of how he's tried, just let him get what's coming to him at this point.
     
  9. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    See if you can find some parity there, big guy.

    subtle differences =/= relevant differences

    Somebody just decided that the rules don't need to apply anymore, and we need to treat this whole thing like something we've never encountered before and that's simply not true. Just because we're waging war somewhere while they picked him up, doesn't mean it's case for military tribunals/intervention. If he wasn't picked up by the military (which, I don't think the CIA really qualifies as; [The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) is a civilian intelligence agency of the United States government.]) and he wasn't picked up in an active combat zone... and the majority of the accusations made against him are against civilians or private entities.... why the fuck does this guy need a military trial? Or furthermore, why is a military tribunal MORE appropriate than a civilian trial in the first place? :scratch:

    Also, the civilian route seemed to work just fine in prosecuting all of our other terror cases... what makes this SO different that it warrants a completely different method? The answer is nothing.

    EDIT: Also, something else to throw into the mix:

    http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2005/2005_05_184/
     
  10. TruthDose

    TruthDose SRS BIDNIZZ

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    Hey guys :wavey:


    9/11 was an inside job?
     
  11. RenegadeDave

    RenegadeDave Huge nerd

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    Randy I was under the impression he was detained by the military. If the CIA brought him in then I've no problem with a civilian trial. I readily admitted the whole time I was unaware of the particulars of his apprehension.

    See if you can dial the civility back up to previous levels man. The hostility in your posts is both unflattering and unwarranted.
     
  12. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    Fair enough.

    I have more of an issue with the people who were fully informed with this case and the specifics involved, and still insisted that this should be handled by the military. Lindsey Graham being one of them.

    That isn't you, and I shouldn't have attacked you for that. My bad, and I hear you loud and clear on all that. Sorry for being jerky. :wub:
     

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