Help me out here... Thursday's Israeli - Hezbollah conflict

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by David, Jul 13, 2006.

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  1. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    :rofl: Dude, that was sheer genius. :lol:
     
  2. Dive-Baum

    Dive-Baum Bite Me Fan Boy!!

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    1) I just don't believe that would be the case. I hope you are right.
    2) Just for an example in the 1993 Peace Accords with the Palestinians, Arafat got almost everything he wanted. He then decided he wanted all of Jerusalem for the Palestinians. This way he could back out of the deal and not be the one who gave in to the Jews. This is how they think. Hizbollah would be no different. International opposition doesn't ever help Israel. look at the resolutions that have been passed against Israel in the past versus the number that have been for. It is overwhelmingly anti Israel.
    3) The UN observers in Lebanon saw the rockets going out in the begining and they didn't do anything. The UN passed a resolution and they didn't do anything. The world is not on the side of Israel and it never will be.

    Drew, I hope on every level you are right with the exception of handing the Golan back over. It won't happen. Just like the Palestinians, when they get what they want, they find other reasons to be mad and fight. It's just the way it is. When Israel was attacked in 1967, none of the disputed teritories were owned or occupied by Israel...What was the excuse then? The answer to that is the fact that they would not tollerate Jews living in their midst. The answer to all of these problems stems from that.

    Also, the State of Israel was named the Jewish Homeland. I went there and I personally saw Jews, Christians and Muslims living and working in the same communities. So the whole idea about the Palestinians getting kicked off of their land is a load of crap. And if you want to get down to it...Israel was built by the Israelites..but of course they took it from the Caananites so I guess we need to track them down and settle their claim to it as well.
     
  3. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    1.) Seeing as, for at least 10 years, breaking a peace accord written in these terms would effectively be an attack against the UN, I'd say international opposition would be pretty substantial.
    2.) I would need to read into the specifics of the peace accord in 1993 to really speak on that in any greater depth, which I will do after work tonight. However, what Arafat does is in no way a sure-fire indication of what Hezbollah will - "how they think" is sort of a loaded phrase, don't you think? And my understanding is that the United Nations has sided with the Israelis with rather a good degree of frequency - at the very least, the UN was the body that sided with Israel and awarded them the Golon Heights in the initial conflict with Lebanon. I can't claim to be able to spout off a comprehensive list, but my understanding is that Israel does reasonably well for itself in the UN.
    3.) Again, there's a difference between an observer and a peacekeeping force authorized to attack if they see the treaty being violated.
    As for the war in 1967? Dude, hezbollah didn't even exist in 1967, they were first formed in 1982. Not only was the political situation very different (see Noodles' epic post), Hezbollah has a very specific stated goal (to lift from wikipedia again, "Three things comprise our minimal demand: an [Israeli] withdrawal from South Lebanon and the Western Bqa’ Valley, a withdrawal from the Golan, and the return of the Palestinian refugees." This statement dates from 1999, and they've since gotten two of the three minimum conditions.) Saying "Hezbollah will not tolerate Jews living in their midst" based on a war in 1967 over very different objectives is a complete distortion of the facts here, Dive-Baum.

    Returning the Golon Heights to Lebanon would meet all of the requirements of Hezbollah for peace, and Israel has said time and time again that their objective here is to demilitarize Hezbollah. If that's the case, while it's unquestionably a sacrifice for both sides, it's one worth declaring a cease-fire to discuss, I'd think.
     
  4. noodles

    noodles Contributor

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    "Monkeys killing moneys killing monkeys over pieces of the ground...."

    The history of that region reads like the part of the bible on lineage (Joe begot Dave begot Sam begot Frank begot Jim begot Mike begot...). Seriously.

    Mesopotamians got their asses kicked by Sumerians got their asses kicked by Akkadians got their asses kicked by Guteans got their asses kicked by Assyrians got their asses kicked by Babylonians got their asses kicked by more Assyrians got their asses kicked by Persians got their asses kicked by Greeks got their asses kicked by...

    I'm at the point where I don't give a damn what happens to who over there. I just want my country out of it. If we culd kill off some oil company execs, ram a new fuel source down the throats of Congress (their are plenty of viable options), and just right off that area forever.

    Unfortunately, US presidents seem to be addicts, and the Middle East is the dealer.
     
  5. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Nah, just top investors. One and the same, functionally - they're not about to hurt the family business or their retirement portfolios, you know?
     
  6. noodles

    noodles Contributor

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    When I conquor the planet and become Supreme Dictator for life, I shall task Shannon with slowly torturing every single oil company exec to death with a medley of music from American Idol.
     
  7. Dive-Baum

    Dive-Baum Bite Me Fan Boy!!

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    Well here are the resolutions against Israel through 1992
    . Resolution 106: "... 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"
    2. Resolution 111: "...'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
    3. Resolution 127: "...'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"
    4. Resolution 162: "...'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"
    5. Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"
    6. Resolution 228: "...'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"
    7. Resolution 237: "...'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"
    8. Resolution 248: "... 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"
    9. Resolution 250: "... 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"
    10. Resolution 251: "... 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"
    11. Resolution 252: "...'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"
    12. Resolution 256: "... 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation""
    13. Resolution 259: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"
    14. Resolution 262: "...'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport"
    15. Resolution 265: "... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"
    16. Resolution 267: "...'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"
    17. Resolution 270: "...'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"
    18. Resolution 271: "...'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"
    19. Resolution 279: "...'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"
    20. Resolution 280: "....'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon"
    21. Resolution 285: "...'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"
    22. Resolution 298: "...'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem"
    23. Resolution 313: "...'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"
    24. Resolution 316: "...'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"
    25. Resolution 317: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"
    26. Resolution 332: "...'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"
    27. Resolution 337: "...'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty"
    28. Resolution 347: "...'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon"
    29. Resolution 425: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
    30. Resolution 427: "...'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon'
    31. Resolution 444: "...'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"
    32. Resolution 446: "...'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
    33. Resolution 450: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"
    34. Resolution 452: "...'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"
    35. Resolution 465: "...'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"
    36. Resolution 467: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"
    37. Resolution 468: "...'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"
    38. Resolution 469: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians" 39. Resolution 471: "... 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
    40. Resolution 476: "... 'reiterates' that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'"
    41. Resolution 478: "...'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'"
    42. Resolution 484: "...'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"
    43. Resolution 487: "...'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"
    44. Resolution 497: "...'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"
    45. Resolution 498: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"
    46. Resolution 501: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"
    47. Resolution 509: "...'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"
    48. Resolution 515: "...'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"
    49. Resolution 517: "...'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
    50. Resolution 518: "...'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"
    51. Resolution 520: "...'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut"
    52. Resolution 573: "...'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters
    53. Resolution 587: "...'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"
    54. Resolution 592: "...'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops" 55. Resolution 605: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians
    56. Resolution 607: "...'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
    57. Resolution 608: "...'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"
    58. Resolution 636: "...'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians
    59. Resolution 641: "...'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians
    60. Resolution 672: "...'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount
    61. Resolution 673: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations
    62. Resolution 681: "...'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians
    63. Resolution 694: "...'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return
    64. Resolution 726: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians
    65. Resolution 799: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

    I will be there helping. Did you see where Exxon had over $1B per day in revenue? That was the first time any American Company has done that.
    They posted over $10B in proffit for the quarter..all on the backs of the American people.
     
  8. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Ok, I stand corrected, Israel gets censured more than it's supported by a ratio of perhaps 10:1, and it can be argued that they are measurably more likely to be censured than many of their peers in the middle east. It can be argued that many of those resulutions were justified, although I'd also argue that many of them should have been qualified with statements repremanding other involved parties as well, but whatever I'll give you that one.

    By my count, you still have two points and an additional comment at the bottom to go. ;)
     
  9. Dive-Baum

    Dive-Baum Bite Me Fan Boy!!

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    I'm working on it Mr Impatient...I'[m trying to close some loans here
     
  10. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Ditto here, with returns. And eating a burrito, because there's no way in hell I'm getting out before 7 or 8 tonight. :/
     
  11. Dive-Baum

    Dive-Baum Bite Me Fan Boy!!

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    I have completely lost my train of though...my brain is so fried after today...an no it didn't have anything to do with you Drew. I'll read back up after dinner and I get the brain juices going again. Although I am not sure I entirely disagree with you on certain points but am looking at them from a different prespective.
     
  12. zimbloth

    zimbloth Nick // Axe Palace Vendor Forum MVP

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    I wish America would go after their enemies in this way instead of the halfassed disaster that has become of Iraq and Afghanistan. It's so hard to "win" when you're constantly worried about civilian casualties and trying to occupy the place with a depleted army devoid of resources. The way to defeat an enemy is to go in their country and pound them into oblivion. Bravo :yesway:

    If only we did this kind of thing to Iran or legitimate threats instead of wasting time in Iraq, who were no threat to us and way better off with Hussein in power. Some people will just always be opposed to taking action no matter what the cause, so be it. Everyones entitled to their opinion. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

    Boo religion. Boo creepy foot doctor. Hooray beer. :)
     
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  13. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Aw, I thought my rugged good looks and boyish charm had won the day here. :fawk:

    No worries, no time to reply today anyhow. Fuck it, let's call a 48 hour truce and take it up again on the weekend, just so I don't have a reason to log back in every 30 minutes. :lol:
     
  14. noodles

    noodles Contributor

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    Rep for you! :rofl:
     
  15. ajdath

    ajdath Banned

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    OK Drew you banned me even i told u to check the site then decide if its ok or not, since you checked and it had some EVIL pics you could just edit the link and problem is solved , banning me for what?? i didnt post the link again !!.
    guys here talking about hizbulla and terrorism, people im not here just to be against israel , but even the jews them selfs are the biggest proof that israel is mistake. bringing people from all over the world and put them in already occupied country and then you tell them congrats you got your selfs a land make a country!!and for jews only!! and for arabs or natives who didnt escape they are 2nd degree citizens. this is fair? hizbulla didnt come from mars they are from south lebanon the south that was occupied by israel they formed this party to free thier land, hizb in arabic means party alla in arabic means god. gods party it means . plus hizbulla kidnaped soldiers why israel destroyed hald of lebanon??? why bombed civilians?? tell now hizbullah is winning battles showing pics and clips to prove his claims and israelies are just telling words that apears every day that short term lies to cover thier loses there. simply no matter whats the size of your arms and weopons you cant win if you dont have right to do what your doing . some one fighting for his land you cant call him terrorist , some one already got 10s of U.N resoloutions to do since 1967 cant ask lebanon to do one only right??

    ps: drew i told you im not gonna die if you will ban me from this site so im not buying your threats , and im still offended for the ban because it was unfair.
     
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  16. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    :rolleyes: I suspended you for posting it publically in the first place, not for then sending it to me for approval. The only reason I didn't immediately suspend you was that I didn't look at the link until you sent it to me the second time.

    I'm no more anti-Hezbollah than I am anti-Israel, but dude, we're talking graphic pictures of dead 6-year olds. That shit does NOT belong on this board. It's not your politics that bother me - far from it. It's your way of expressing them.
     
  17. Dive-Baum

    Dive-Baum Bite Me Fan Boy!!

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    :funny:

    I haven't had time to do any homework Bro. I'm not gonna bother responding to some others but you are ON my friend. Truce accepted....for now:fawk:
     
  18. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    :lol: I'm gonna be out of town for a lot of the weekend, so take yer time. :D
     
  19. ajdath

    ajdath Banned

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    but you didnt think that im not the owner or moderator of that site so im not in charge of what data pics are added or skiped from thier site?? so its not my fault that they added pics i didnt see 2 weeks after i saw the film there! any way i didnt even scroll down i saw the first movie that apears then i switched the site, those pics they showed i see them almost daily on news. what ever, politics is the most fucked up issue after broken string and fuzzy distortion sound
     
  20. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    adjath, you're ultimately responsible for any content you post here. As you yourself said, you don't particularly care if you get banned or not, so what's the big deal? You posted a link to graphic images that should under NO condition be posted here, I gave you a three day. It's pretty open and shut.

    It's not like I have a problem with you personally, it's just that crap doesn't belong here, and I don't want to look at the bloody carcases of little children for ANY reason, much less when they're being used for politcal leverage. Drop it.
     
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