Has America ever been great and why?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by narad, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    167
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    That's actually quite a good point. Living where there are a lot of deer, I constantly scan for eye shine and movement at night (even during the day on certain roads). I'd be curious about what kind of risk aversions autonomous cars will use for objects that aren't necessarily an immediate risk. If I see a bunch of deer on the side of the road, I slow down, and if one is crossing the road, I wait at least a few seconds after scanning both sides to see if there are any more waiting to run across.
     
  2. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    12,957
    Likes Received:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    In the local news last week, some guy got his gas pedal stuck under his floor mat and chose to crush a pedestrian against a brick wall rather then dive into a river. If his car was AI, I guarantee that, in that very specific situation, one pedestrian would still have been alive. :2c:

    I was thinking about this, though, and, well, I'm not sure how much redundancy there is in these vehicles. If there was, say, one radar antenna, and a piece of aluminum foil somehow got kicked up and stuck in the antenna's field of view, it could be a problem. If these cars have any sort of GPS reliance, then they are not going to work in VT, which has less cell coverage per capita than anywhere.

    If you're hauling freight for a living, I think this will very much be a game changer in the next 15-20 years that will very likely have a direct effect on your career. But, again, what can you do to stop it? Nothing.
     
  3. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,905
    Likes Received:
    488
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Location:
    Never Neverland
    GPS works on the satellite network rather than cell towers, but it still has issues with drop outs without a direct line of site to the satellites (it's no good in tunnels, etc.) so still presents challenges for self driving car navigation. It will be interesting to see how they get around these types of issues.
     
  4. Petar Bogdanov

    Petar Bogdanov SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    31
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Cars should be pretty damn good at dead reckoning, it's not like a cellphone where you don't have any clean sensors.

    GPS should only be needed for the navigation aspect, anyway. It has a precision of 3 car lengths, or 9 car widths, not good enough for aiming a car.
     
  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    12,957
    Likes Received:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    I have GPS as well for hiking, and it works ~30% of the time here in the Green Mountain State. Keep in mind that the biggest city in VT is 40k residents. Rutland is the next biggest outside of the Burlington area and is 17k. After that, there are no cities, just small towns and abandoned papermills. There's a town north of me, called Lewis, which has had a population of exactly zero since the early 20th century. People come through here all of the time, though, from Montreal to Boston or from Boston to Montreal. There is no cell service and no GPS. There are maybe two radio stations you can pick up at a time.

    I can't imagine rural Wyoming nor Montana being even this good, as far as technology.

    The reason I bring this up is that I heard a piece on the radio about cars with their speedometers based off of GPS, and the reporter was so keen on the idea, mentioning how GPS is available pretty much everywhere. Maybe in the city, but probably not even 100% in that case.

    These AI cars and freight lorries will have to navigate with GPS, I imagine. If they come through here, there will be a t least one case of an AI vehicle crashing into farmer Dan's 250 year old barn, since none of the GPS maps show a building there, and most have a road cutting through that clearly does not. Maybe these vehicles are programmed not to crash into stuff, but if the GPS signal is nil and the maps are totally wrong, I don't see how it's not going to cause some sort of chaos with vehicles having no idea where they are supposed to go. Even one of the mainest of the main roads in northern VT (US Rte 2) becomes almost completely indistinguishable from the snow covered ground in spots during the winter.

    We also have a little street here a lot of truckers take, because it shows as a short cut on the GPS. What the GPS doesn't explain is that there is a hairpin turn right after another hard turn on a 20% steep downgrade on a paved road that isn't really so much paved as potholed. I see at least one trucker jackknifed there every winter, and that's one of the roads that's marked on the map as a major through-way.

    Probably the best way around this is to dictate to the AI vehicles that it is imperative for them to stay on specific roads, and avoid anything other than interstate highways in places like Vermont.

    Well, that's the topic we've been discussing. The sensors on a fright carrier driving across the country are not going to be clean. There are potholes full of mud, road salt, sand, bugs, etc. Have you ever seen the windshield of a lorry that drove through the countryside during warm weather? There are a lot of bugs, and there is no way any AI can dodge them.
     
  6. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    4,814
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Yea, they would not crash into a barn really in any circumstance, unless it was painted to mimic a road leading off into the horizon Roadrunner & Coyote style.

    The GPS is a factor though as the GPS is currently one of the main troubleshooting methods for pinpointing current location within the road lanes when you can't see the dividers.
     
  7. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    12,957
    Likes Received:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    Nobody would ever do such a nasty trick...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ha ha, no, I know that they will ping off of walls using radar/sonar/whatever. My point was tied in with the earlier discussion about the senors getting clogged or dirty or whatever and malfunctioning, unless there was a good degree of redundancy.
     
  8. Chokey Chicken

    Chokey Chicken mouth breather

    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    133
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    RI
    I think it's interesting that everyone is talking about the future of self driving cars while relying on current gen tech. You don't think they'll work on bettering gps and maps as the tech develops?

    If there is to be the expectation that cars will need to travel through the middle of nowhere, then they will make it work. lol
     
  9. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    4,814
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    I just think the tech is already much more developed than it's generally being treated in this thread. I mean, check this out:

    [YOUTUBEVID]q1H312nEmiM[/YOUTUBEVID]

    I've studied the vision system a bit and watched many of Nvidia's tech demos of that system before, but I didn't know the lidar was as far-reaching as it is.
     
  10. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    12,957
    Likes Received:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    I don't think there's any confusion about that. As with anything else, there will be a phase one and a phase two. If the current phase is ready for beta testing, then there will be beta testing with whatever tech they currently have ready. As they hit snags, they'll continue to develop workarounds for the snags they hit for the next round.

    My money is on the first round of these things running into some snags in the field. Why? Because it's always the case with revolutionary technologies like this. And, frankly, this thing could end up being 100x safer than a human behind the wheel, and some people will still be very vocally fearful of it, and there will be something-or-other that those fearful people glam onto in order to say "Look! See! We told you this was bad!"

    As far as developing a better GPS. I really don't think that a GPS that will reliably function in the middle of nowhere will predate the release of self-driving AI. There's not really any other economic motivation for it. Saving a dozen hikers a year isn't going to pay for new advanced satellite networks. Self driving cars carrying expensive cargo will, but I highly doubt that point will sink in 100% until something happens to really make it sting a little. That is all I was saying before.

    After whatever snags are worked out, though, this will come, and it will be more cost-effective and reliable (eventually) than paying a trucker to haul freight across the country.

    Think about this, too: What happened to train engineers' jobs when the trucking industry supplanted the railroad industry? They never went away completely, but there sure are a lot fewer than there used to be. And what about Conestoga wagons? Those were hit hard by the railroad industry, and completely disappeared by the time trucking had taken hold of the commerce market. Maybe freight drones will make AI trucks obsolete? Who knows?
     
  11. Petar Bogdanov

    Petar Bogdanov SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    31
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    If you drive a car with ABS, it already has 4 very clean, in terms of signal, speed sensors. So the speed detection and the redundancy are already built in.

    At their simplest, the sensors consist of a tone ring and a sealed hall effect sensor. They are pretty reliable, all things considered.
     
  12. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    12,957
    Likes Received:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    That brings up a point, though, reinforcing my point. A traditional speedometer works by measuring RPM and multiplying by the circumference of the tyre to get linear speed. It doesn't work if the tyres are not getting 100% traction.
     
  13. Petar Bogdanov

    Petar Bogdanov SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    31
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Given that they have figured out cyclist and pedestrian detection already, somehow I think they will figure out traction loss, and driving on until they get a GPS signal.
     
  14. VBCheeseGrater

    VBCheeseGrater not quite a shredder

    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    406
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Location:
    Hampton Roads
    Sure we are/have been great in alot of areas, but that does not mean we should not be critically reviewing some of our programs, reviewing success stories of other civilized nations, and revisiting laws and framework that were drawn up in the 1700's.

    With any entity, be it person, business, or country - the ability to evaluate and adapt to changing evidence and circumstances breeds success.
     
  15. Tortellini

    Tortellini SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2017
    Location:
    Hell
    America is pretty great. It ain't free like people say it is, but it's still the only place I'll ever wanna live.

    Netherlands is next in line. No drug war, and no war on prostitution. Just freedom.
     
  16. UnderTheSign

    UnderTheSign SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,998
    Likes Received:
    205
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Location:
    West Coast, The Netherlands
    Have you ever been here or followed our elections? :lol:

    We have semi-legal pot and a massive criminally exploited red light district. Hurray "freedom".
     
  17. Tortellini

    Tortellini SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2017
    Location:
    Hell
    Didn't know that lol. I've never been to Europe.
     

Share This Page