Good job, Boston Jury

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by ArtDecade, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. asher

    asher So Did We

    Messages:
    9,033
    Likes Received:
    686
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Just being a five year old about the Forced Rectal Investigating phrase being funny, despite it referring to something actually horrible :lol:
     
  2. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,056
    Likes Received:
    438
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    Sorta like AIT, which is also referring to something horrible.
     
  3. ArtDecade

    ArtDecade Unhindered by Talent

    Messages:
    3,960
    Likes Received:
    756
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Location:
    Sunset Strip, 1987
    The jury chose the Death Penalty.
     
  4. asher

    asher So Did We

    Messages:
    9,033
    Likes Received:
    686
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Not surprised at all.

    As expected, will be appealed.

    Interesting thought:

    It was prosecuted as a federal case, not a Massachusetts one. This leaves the death penalty on the table - it's banned in the state. This also means that, when the Feds screen jurors, they require them to be "death penalty qualified", or not opposed to it.

    If a majority of Boston area residents (it's around 66% for both the state and the area, I think?) oppose the death penalty, then this “death qualified” jury means a jury selected from amongst a pool of Boston area residents whose views are amongst the minority of Boston area residents.
     
  5. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

    Messages:
    25,912
    Likes Received:
    2,768
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I was watching CNN and they brought that up. It seems that even average, death penalty opposing Bostonians were calling this an exception or "worst of the worst" situation worthy of the death penalty, at least that's what thier polls were showing. Though, who knows how accurate that is.
     
  6. estabon37

    estabon37 Melodica Attack!

    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    67
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Location:
    Fury Lane (it's quieter than Fury Road)
    Most of us can think of exceptions to our moral stances, so I'd not be surprised if most residents of Massachusetts (Massachutians?) considered the death penalty appropriate in this case.

    That doesn't mean they'd be "death qualified" (I can't believe that's a social / legal terminology instead of a Steven Seagal film). So, I guess what I'm asking is whether the qualifying factor is being in favour of the death penalty in general, or being in favour of the death penalty in this case. If it's the former, then it opens up a strong possibility that a jury might be biased, or at least ideologically similar enough to not really represent the rest of society. The latter seems less problematic in these regards.

    Although now that I think about it, why wouldn't a federal court case make up its jury from the federation at large (there's probably a really obvious answer to this that I've just missed in my state of sleepiness). Surely you could get 12 people from 12 states, and fly them in for a holiday where they get to sit around and quietly judge people they don't know (which, I've just realised, is most holidays).
     
  7. asher

    asher So Did We

    Messages:
    9,033
    Likes Received:
    686
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    It means they don't hold objections to the use of it.

    So like, unless I perjured myself to get on the jury (so I could then hang it I guess?), I would be disqualified because I'm against it in all cases.
     
  8. MFB

    MFB ExBendable

    Messages:
    11,777
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I'm putting the death penalty ruling based solely on the fact that the jury viewed this as an attack against fellow residents, and thus were willing to put aside their usual moral high-grounds and declare that this won't be tolerated; thus, death penalty. I know that's how I'd view it, even if you are supposed to be un-biased and objective.
     
  9. pushpull7

    pushpull7 Banned

    Messages:
    4,297
    Likes Received:
    148
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Location:
    sac
    The idea that anything other than terrible torturous death is not supported is disturbing.
     
  10. asher

    asher So Did We

    Messages:
    9,033
    Likes Received:
    686
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    The idea that terrible, torturous death is supported is disturbing. :shrug:

    That said, this is the kind of place why I fully understand why people feel that way.
     
  11. pushpull7

    pushpull7 Banned

    Messages:
    4,297
    Likes Received:
    148
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Location:
    sac
    Really? To me my moral compass is sound. I don't think that people that want to blow up marathons (regardless of their religion or anything else) should live.

    This is the case of the worst of the worst. Should be taken out back and shot immediately. Maybe then it would make someone think twice about it.

    I realize a good portion of people support terrorist ....s like this. I'm not one of them.
     
  12. estabon37

    estabon37 Melodica Attack!

    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    67
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Location:
    Fury Lane (it's quieter than Fury Road)
    Please don't conflate 'being against the death penalty' with 'supporting terrorism'.

    This is an important case and a very important conversation because it tests the philosophies, ideologies, and stances of those of us who have stated here in the past that we're against capital punishment. We're supposed to be conflicted, and re-consider our position on the issue. To fail to question ourselves in the face of absurd and insane violence would be an injustice in itself.

    One's moral compass is not merely defined by arriving at an 'acceptable' conclusion, it is defined by the questions asked and decisions made along the way.

    Personally, having said in the past that I oppose the death penalty (and at other times that I support it), I see three possible stances I could take in regards to Tsarnaev.

    1) For once, I don't have to invoke Hitler. His crimes are great enough that I will suspend my own rules, and I would prefer to see him executed.

    2) His crimes are not much more horrific than those of a great many people that have been sentenced to death, so it would be illogical and hypocritical for me to make an exception in this case.

    3) His crimes are significant, but I prefer not to relent on my position for extreme cases, because I believe the arguments against capital punishments are sound.

    There are obviously far more options than this, but these are the three that I see being most relevant to my own feelings on the case. Note that I do not consider "terrible, torturous death" to be an option, I do not consider my refusal to consider "terrible, torturous death as essentially "supporting terrorism", I don't think that execution will "make someone think twice", because as we've covered extensively in this thread, the death penalty has thus far not won any wars against drugs or violence, and maybe most importantly:

    I do not think that disagreeing with me on the issue of capital punishment means your moral stance should be questioned. That you think that people who arrive at a different conclusion on the issue suggests your critical thinking skills need some work, but the only thing that defines one's moral stance is their definition of their moral stance. If you think that the premises and outcomes behind arriving at a decision in this case are simple, it might be because you're thinking simply.
     
  13. pushpull7

    pushpull7 Banned

    Messages:
    4,297
    Likes Received:
    148
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Location:
    sac
    What would you like me to do with him? Rehabilitate him?

    That would be a NO. Though I realize the irony of how much money he will cost to eventually have him put to death, what he did was UNBELIEVABLY HEINOUS. It wasn't a crime of passion, it wasn't some dumb kid who didn't know better. It was EVIL as evil can be.

    I don't have any sympathy for people that are that bad.

    It wasn't a "war", it wasn't because of how poorly he was treated, or any of the other "human" things that you can apply. It was ....ing AWFUL.

    Manson should have been killed. That was horrible and heinous. He gets to be a celebrity. :mad:
     
  14. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    4,819
    Likes Received:
    1,180
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Honestly give the terrorists some credit in knowing that death is the likely outcome for these actions -- to accomplish their goal and be immediately executed is probably the ideal, romanticized scenario, and unlikely to deter people serious enough to plot months, if not years, in advance.
     
  15. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    282
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Location:
    Worcester, MA
    I think that it could be argued that a swift execution doesn't adequately repay the suffering caused. It obviously has that chest-puffing, "take that, f**ker" gratification, but it seems almost too easy depending on the gravity of the crime. In civil cases involving personal injury or wrongful death the duration of suffering by either the injured or the deceased (between trauma & passing), respectively, is a factor in establishing damages; it's not a perfect analog but the length of a prison sentence is the closest punishment-by-duration for criminals.

    Someone as young this kid might know that he will be put to death at some point and therefore not get to experience life (duh), but I don't think he'd really comprehend (and experience the pain of) that loss if he were executed right now. His suffering will come through time, and it's probable that the decade-of-so of appeals will probably be worst part of the punishment. To put it another way, does anyone read The Pit and the Pendulum and think about the sharpness of the blade over the depth of the pit?
     
  16. asher

    asher So Did We

    Messages:
    9,033
    Likes Received:
    686
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I don't see why wanting life without parole is me supporting terrorists or something. Especially when we know the death penalty does nothing as an... anti -incentive (words failing me).

    Like, again dude, I completely understand. Earlier in life I probably would have agreed with you. But I'm pretty firmly in estabon's #3.
     
  17. estabon37

    estabon37 Melodica Attack!

    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    67
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Location:
    Fury Lane (it's quieter than Fury Road)
    Cool, but that's not the point either of us were making. As I highlighted, you were connecting particular punishments with partiular levels of dislike for terrorism. The whole point of a judicial system is to have as balanced and objective a trial as possible, even if it's ultimately impossible to do so in this case. You are advocating a sentence based on either pure emotion, or public dislike of a particular thing. That's the kind of shit that used to get people lynched.

    We get it, you don't like Tsarnaev. Welcome to the club. Your feelings on one particular case should not change the basis for an entire judicial system, and my feelings on that system say nothing about my feelings on terrorism. You're getting your wires crossed.
     
  18. pushpull7

    pushpull7 Banned

    Messages:
    4,297
    Likes Received:
    148
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Location:
    sac
    That's disgusting.
     
  19. UnderTheSign

    UnderTheSign SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,998
    Likes Received:
    205
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Location:
    West Coast, The Netherlands
    And torturing someone to death isn't?
     
  20. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    6,400
    Likes Received:
    197
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    What's disgusting about that statement? :scratch:
     

Share This Page