Girl, 17, Forced to Continue Chemo for Hodgkin's Lymphoma Against Wishes

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by TheStig1214, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. TheStig1214

    TheStig1214 Mr. Tophat Jones

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    So this has been circulating at least my local/tri state area news.

    Connecticut’s highest court approves forced chemotherapy for teen - The Washington Post

    I encourage reading the whole article, but the gist of it is this:

    Cassandra has Hodgkin's Lymphoma, was diagnosed in September 2014. She wanted to not undergo chemo therapy, which would more than likely save her life, on the grounds it was "poison". Connecticut trial courts in 2014 determined she had to do it, and she agreed under oath she would if she could go home.

    Then Cassandra ran away, and thus could not undergo treatment.

    She was detained and the state took over her medical care. Cassandra and her mother took it to the Connecticut Supreme Court and they upheld the previous court's ruling that she is not competent or mature enough to make her own medical care related choices, and that she would have to continue treatment against her will.

    Now my view here is this. What was she going to do otherwise? Die a slow painful death? I know chemo is hell on the body, and the side effects of it can be worse than the side effects of cancer itself in some cases, but when it is a matter of life or death (rather, an 85% to 95% chance of living versus a 0% chance of living), I assume any logical person would choose to live.
     
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  2. Captain Butterscotch

    Captain Butterscotch SS.org Regular

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    A citizen should be able to decide what they can and cannot do to their own body. If that includes dying a painful death then so be it because that's their decision, not the government.
     
  3. TheStig1214

    TheStig1214 Mr. Tophat Jones

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    I suppose so, but I find the logic behind her reasoning incredibly flawed.

    I think the legal issue here though was that the mother was not taking her daughter to the medical treatment she needed to live, even if it was because of her own wants. Once she became under the "custody" of the state, so to speak, they had an obligation to make sure this girl didn't kill herself with a very treatable disease.
     
  4. Pooluke41

    Pooluke41 H. Maddas

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    if she was 21 then i'd agree, her decision, but she's 17. Not nearly old enough to make that sort of decision IMO
     
  5. FILTHnFEAR

    FILTHnFEAR Infidel

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    As someone that's gone through it, I can say it's no picnic. Never felt worse in my entire life. But with the support of my friends and family I pushed through it and lived. :fawk: cancer.

    I don't really understand her logic either. Even more so her mothers. She really wanna watch her daughter die knowing there was a very good chance of keeping her alive? Wtf is wrong with these people? She has a very treatable form of cancer and she chooses to die instead. Sounds like maybe she's got some kind of mental issues going on as well? Idk.

    She doesn't want to put poison in her body, but her body has already been poisoned with the cancer. One can save here, the other will kill her.

    I mean, people have the right to do what they want with their own lives so I can't say I totally agree with their intervening against her will, but this is just a strange situation.

    I think that when/if her treatment works she'll look back later in life and wonder just what the hell she was thinking.
     
  6. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    Minor child decides agrees to get treatment for treatable, possibly fatal disease (pneumonia, sepsis, lymphoma, whatever).

    Minor child then breaks agreement and runs away to escape treatment.

    State then recovers minor child and treats child for treatable, possibly fatal disease (pneumonia, sepsis, lymphoma, whatever).

    I'm not sure what the news story is, or, rather, why it's news. People who are pulled back from committing suicide when they don't have a fatal illness don't often get widely reported.
     
  7. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    I'm normally one to vote to let people die if they want, and to keep the government out of people's lives. But, I'm also a father, and there is just no way I'd let my 17 year old (which, admittedly, I don't have. At least not for several more years) make that call. Kids are not mature enough to make those calls. I also wouldn't let my 17 year old get a face tattoo, marry a loser guy, or any number of other poor decisions that kids that age can't see past.

    The mom, in this case; maybe should be left to die. :nuts: :lol:
     
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  8. tacotiklah

    tacotiklah I am Denko (´・ω・`)

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    I'm a strong advocate for letting people decide whether or not they wanna go through chemo. It's a rough process and not everyone can handle it. I see 17 as old enough to make the decision, and if the family supports her, then there's no reason for the government to get involved.

    Some people would rather die on their own terms than waste away on all kinds of chemicals and radiation. I can respect that.
     
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  9. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

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    If the government doesn't think she's old enough to decide whether or not to poison her body with alcohol, it comes as no surprise they wouldn't think she's old enough to decide whether or not to poison her body with chemo. They're nothing if not consistent.
     
  10. TheStig1214

    TheStig1214 Mr. Tophat Jones

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    This article actually rails against the mom a lot more than others. Local news stations I've seen run the story show her saying she doesn't want her daughter to die, but she supports her right to choose more.

    But, watching the video, I see the mom saying there are "a lot of other options."

    ...there are? I want to know what other options here are for treating cancer besides the ones that are proven to work.

    Maybe they want to cure it with pseudoscience, BS, and wishful thinking :lol:
     
  11. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    :lol: I got neg repped for acting like an "arm chair quarterback." I guess I'm not supposed to try to put myself in the shoes of the family and determine what I would do? Isn't that what we're trying to do here? :scratch: Looks like he's judging me for judging someone else. Because that's OK.
     
  12. TheStig1214

    TheStig1214 Mr. Tophat Jones

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    I did too :lol:

    "Incredibly flawed... when you yourself, just one post prior to this one, admitted "Chemo SE's CAN be worse than the disease itself..." Lol."

    Yeah, the SIDE EFFECTS can be worse. But I'd say living is much better than dying in the long run.

    Someone can't see the forest through the trees.
     
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  13. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I'm laughing about someone being a judgmental armchair quarterback about others being armchair quarterbacks.

    Join the conversation if you have a point which you think is worth discussing. Have the courage of your convictions. You might sway someone's opinion.

    Then again, making the judgment that others shouldn't judge is hypocritical, so figure out that logic first before you subject yourself to ridicule.
     
  14. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Mixed feelings for sure, but maybe not very mixed. To me, overriding the girls decision not to get the treatment was the right choice, but the choice maybe should have been made by her mother and not by the court (even if that's not the decision that would have been made). If a mother chooses to allow her own daughter to die, then maybe she has the right to make that choice, but has to live with the consequences of that mistake. On the other hand, if I had been in the position of the court, I'd probably have decided the same thing. Lots of grey area here.
     
  15. Captain Butterscotch

    Captain Butterscotch SS.org Regular

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    I do agree that 17 is pretty young, but then again I don't think that one 17 year old is equal to another 17 year old in terms of maturity. But that's a whole separate, and probably more inflammatory, topic :lol:

    I'm just of the mind that it doesn't matter what age you are, the government should pretty much just f uck off when it comes to decisions pertaining to someone's personal life, even (and possibly especially) medical decisions. This was a decision that should have been kept in the family.
     
  16. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    As long as a person is a minor the parents have to attempt proven practices to cure lethal illnesses otherwise face child abuse charges. On the whole I'm for that because it prevents whack jobs from killing their kids through BS methods that have proven to be ineffective.

    However, she could have legally emancipated herself and in some states 17 is old enough to be legally considered an adult. There are far easier ways to get out from under people's thumb than running away. The fact that this was her knee jerk reaction actually leads me to believe she isn't very mature and is likely not in the right 'state of mind' to be making these sort of decisions.

    I've run into my fair share of kids between the age of 15 and 19. They are very different people in their late 20's for a reason. At that age making dumb decisions is the norm, not the exception, for a lot of kids out there. This honestly sounds like one, especially for something with such good odds. I'd say they have a point if success was highly unlikely, as chemo for the sake of nothing probably sucks, but to live I don't believe so.
     
  17. chopeth85

    chopeth85 SS.org Regular

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    As a leukhemia ex patient , i totally agree with the fear that chemp provokes ( as well as the secondary effects, that in my case was way worse than the cancer itself ) but a cancer is something it can be impossible not only to understand but also something that makes you think about no future at all . i think one of the biggest problem with this illness is having the thought of " anything wont be worth because im going to die" so i honestly think the first thing to do is make sure that the patience understand the real possibility of a cure absolutely. In this particulary case, hodkin cancer ( except some particular variations ) is one of the " esasiest " cancer to cure, so , talking deeply with her, with someone has had the same issue it would be a great way to makes her to understand that live is extremely beautiful to loose the chance of being lived. Sorry if you dont understand but english isnt my mother tonge and i am really had my heart on the throat as i am writting this...
     
  18. TheStig1214

    TheStig1214 Mr. Tophat Jones

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    I agree, maybe it's a case of learned helplessness here. She wants to feel like she has no options.

    I think that's what the courts used to determine she wasn't mature enough. This does seem to be a very knee jerk reaction. Running away didn't help her case at all.

    I'll say I'm usually a libertarian sort of fellow, and I agree that someone that is in late stage terminal cancer with little options and can make a mature decision should be able to go out on their own terms like this. This, however, seems to be a very brash reaction to a what in reality is a very treatable disease with admittedly a very scary and tough treatment. The reasoning of "not wanting poison in her body" to me is just as weak as if she said "I'm scared of needles" or "I'm going to try homeopathy". Many medicines she has probably taken in the past are "poison" in their natural forms and/or in high enough doses, many medicines are.
     
  19. GoldDragon

    GoldDragon SS.org Regular

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    The girl was brainwashed by her mother or is at least colluding with her. It looks like they want a lawsuit.

    The story she tells is that her daughter will not be "whole" after Chemo because it may kill her embryos and she will be unable to have children. When asked what alternative treatment they were planning, they said they had not investigated their options. This tells me they were stalling and not serious about alternatives, just generating conflict with the state who was "illegally forcing" their daughter to have chemo.

    This is child abuse by the mother, convincing the girl that she should risk death because she may lose her embryos. A sane person would choose life over inabilty ot have children.

    My thought was that the embroys could be harvested for later implantation if it is of that great a concern to her. Saving her life and ability to have children.

    The prognosis is very good for her type of cancer, the chemo is the gold standard of treatment.
     
  20. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    Connecticut Minor Child Still Valiantly fFghting for Right to Die from Curable Disease - LA Times

    Connecticut Teen Explains Why She Doesn't Want Treatment for Curable Disease - ABC News

    She's gonna live more in that year of suffering than anyone else, even her, could possibly fit into a long, full lifetime!!!

    (Yes, I changed the headlines to include one crucial fact.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015

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