Ghost In The Shell Film 2017

Discussion in 'Movies, Books, TV & Media' started by Bloody_Inferno, Nov 14, 2016.

  1. CapnForsaggio

    CapnForsaggio Cap'n (general)

    Messages:
    785
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    Honestly, the English overdub version is probably the cause of my issues with the narrative. I suspect that there is more subtlety in the native language dialog.

    I just can't watch such a stunning movie with subtitles on. Feels like I'm reading when I should be watching.
     
  2. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    4,055
    Likes Received:
    164
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Location:
    WI
    I usually try out the dub track on animated movies, and if it is in any way cringeworthy or cheap sounding, I go to the original language. AKA, this tends to happen with all Japanese animation other than some of the Ghibli flicks. :p The only time I put up with a subpar dub was Summer Wars, cause there was so much going on that there was no way to process it with subtitles!
     
  3. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

    Messages:
    11,860
    Likes Received:
    2,416
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Location:
    California
    This would be awesome if it weren't whitewashed, and if it was done very much like the original anime. Or, if it was merely an inspiration for something, like how The Matrix was. But when it's a crappy remake, where it neither retains the character and timbre of the original, nor does it reformulate it as as a novel take, then it's just another lack of effort and grabbing for low hanging fruit by Hollywood.
     
  4. synrgy

    synrgy Ya ya ya I am Lorde

    Messages:
    6,342
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    Frederick, MD
    The original's ideas are inherently dated. The manga started in 1989 and the film was released in 1995. At the time, very few were giving any thought to these subjects beyond the abstract. The Internet had barely made it's way into people's homes, and it's representation in (barely) popular media - think Johnny Mnemonic, Hackers, etc - was mostly laughable. I think that may be much of why GITS endured: It's contemporaries treated the subject matter with typical Hollywood nonchalance, which left it a standout property that took the subject matter seriously.

    Unlike many fans of the original, I tried but couldn't get into any of the various series within the franchise, and though I found the feature film sequel to be stunningly beautiful, I also found it staggeringly boring.

    Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how much they update from the original, to potentially make some light of all the technical advances and limitations we've discovered during the interim. Otherwise, I worry it may end up more like the original's contemporaries, than the original itself.
     
  5. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    5,022
    Likes Received:
    1,592
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Racing to conclusions, no? I didn't catch any puppet master in the trailer, though it clearly sets the scene with the same truck driver guy.

    EDIT: Yea, not sure if it's telling, but there's no mention of the puppet master in the IMDB page. The trailer made it sound more like exploring the major's past.
     
  6. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    4,055
    Likes Received:
    164
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Location:
    WI
    How do you know all this? Did you read the script?
     
  7. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

    Messages:
    7,222
    Likes Received:
    1,142
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
    Cheongju, SK
    What actual Japanese people think about the whitewashing:



    Cliffs notes: They don't seem to care. They didn't see it as an issue until they were prompted with the idea that it might be.

    I'm not posting this to try to dismiss the concept of whitewashing in Hollywood, of course. I too rolled my eyes when I heard about the casting choice. I'm just adding some perspective, I guess.
     
  8. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    5,022
    Likes Received:
    1,592
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Man, sensible stuff. Makes me regret leaving Japan!
     
  9. Bloody_Inferno

    Bloody_Inferno Silence is Violence

    Messages:
    11,373
    Likes Received:
    2,770
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    That's all well and good, but to be honest, Japan shouldn't really be considered a leading authority on the issue. And that's coming from me here. This movie was a golden opportunity for them (or Asia in general) to widen their Hollywood presence even further.

    One thing that been bugging me is that the manga creator, Masamune Shirow, has been dead silent on the whole movie. I get that he's been reclusive as of late, but being a big Hollywood movie would have got his attention to at least say boo.
     
  10. narad

    narad SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    5,022
    Likes Received:
    1,592
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Who is exactly? Honestly it seems the biggest backlash comes from fans that don't feel that Scarlett fits the part, and blogs/tabloids that see something to complain about, not from Japan, not from asian actors.

    I'm not super happy about her casting, but that's more to do with her closest role to this -- Lucy -- being a terrible movie. I mean it's not fanfare, it's a big budget film, it was going to get at least one A-list celeb in the lead with immediate name recognition. To get more asian stars in major Hollywood pictures, they need to be cast more in TV-series and independent films, in order for them to garner that kind of recognition and fanbase to pave the way for them to appear in these kinds of roles.

    It's hard to even blame that casting crew because this is just the way blockbusters are done, as a genre, tried-and-true: A-list star + lots of effects budget (with skin-tight suits to be risqué while maintaining the PG-13).
     
  11. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

    Messages:
    7,222
    Likes Received:
    1,142
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
    Cheongju, SK
    I was only posting that to show their point of view on it, not to present it as some discussion-ender. Obviously there are many facets to the discussion. When the facet I'm bringing up is "what do Japanese people think about it?" then Japan should absolutely be considered the leading authority. :lol:
     
  12. Bloody_Inferno

    Bloody_Inferno Silence is Violence

    Messages:
    11,373
    Likes Received:
    2,770
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I say that Japan not being a leading authority due to their own culture being homogenous for more or less their entire history. To this day they have a few media portrayals that are straight up xenophobic. Anime has a chock heap of them: Mr Popo, all the Chinese in Code Geass, Lenora in Pokémon, G-Gundam...

    The Attack On Titan live action movies have the same problem, but in reverse and a smaller scale. The list of ostensibly Western characters were casted as Japanese characters. Of course being a Japanese exclusive movie and it's production budget will show no control of that, but Japan themselves won't bat an eye when it comes to the "yellow washing" and was only raised when fans of the manga/anime outside Japan watched it. Of course that was also undermined by the fact that the Attack On Titan live action movie (like almost every live action anime adaptation ever sans Rurouni Kenshin) was a big bowl of wank. :lol:

    I understand the whitewash issue has been going on as long as Hollywood itself. Considering the signs of progress Hollywood has been taking, eg Idris Elba as Heimdall, or Michael B Jordan as Johnny Storm, are steps in the right direction (because both are outstanding actors), even if it means copping it from the hardcore comic fanatics (which funny enough, comics themselves have been experimenting with new race/sex heroes like Miles Morales, black female on an Iron Man suit, Jane Foster as Thor and an Asian Hulk). Of course, poor Michael B Jordan got the shaft because Fan4stic was, as everybody knows, a big bowl of wank. :lol:

    In terms of that vid, being a response to all the (rightfully) negative flak of Scarlet Johansen's casting, then it's a good and civil response, and a response I'd expect from Japan for reasons I said earlier. It doesn't fix the problem overall from a global standpoint but at least it's some baby steps. The media industry has moved since the days where John Wayne was Genghis Khan or bucktoothed Mickey Rooney, but it's been a slow crawl to get here and I'd love more diversity to show up every now and then, especially when it comes to lead actors. Sadly we'll be doing the same song and dance here with The Great Wall.

    End of the day, I just want to at least have hope that this movie will be decent at best. But as I said earlier, the director, who's known cred is Snow White And The Huntsman, and having a scandal with a slab of concrete with a frowny face drawn on it (doesn't really count I know) isn't doing me any favours.... :ugh:
     
  13. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    4,055
    Likes Received:
    164
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Location:
    WI
    Your heart is in the right place, but "Japan isn't a leading authority on the issue" when THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE "VICTIMS?" WTH? When identity politic people start getting offended on behalf of groups they don't belong to, and those groups didn't care in the first place, that's when I start thinking like an old conservative grump. "That's great that the Japanese don't care, but us white people know that they should be, and we are going to tell them to get angry about it!!!" Reminds me of the white people who got the yoga classes cancelled for "cultural appropriation" and all the Indians were like "uhh, why??" :lol:
     
  14. Ibanezsam4

    Ibanezsam4 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,304
    Likes Received:
    213
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Location:
    Providence, RI
    i agree with whitewashing being stupid, but continue to expect it on big budget films especially action movies.

    if Hollywood does start casting more Asian actors, expect them to be Chinese since China is a massive market for international films and casting choice will be made to cater to that market.

    for example, the Red Dawn remake spent an extra $1 million in post production to turn the invading chinese army into a north korean army as to not turn off chinese movie goers.

    it was rumored the reason Tilda Swinton was cast in Doctor Strange was to avoid pissing off Chinese theater goers with an ethnically accurate actor.

    long story short. chinese money matters more than white people feelings about ethnicity; get used to this kind of casting
     
  15. chopeth

    chopeth SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,854
    Likes Received:
    415
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Location:
    Andalucía
    I'm white (in my opinion, probably not in Trump's voters) and I don't care a heck about all this white-washing thing.
     
  16. setsuna7

    setsuna7 Poor Gearwhore

    Messages:
    1,124
    Likes Received:
    183
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur,Malaysia
    I'll leave this here.. practical fx for the film.

     
  17. Bloody_Inferno

    Bloody_Inferno Silence is Violence

    Messages:
    11,373
    Likes Received:
    2,770
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Just came back from seeing this film.

    It certainly looks nice, and there's plenty of homages for the fans of the original, like key scenes done with care, the basset hounds Mamoru Oshii was so fond of, and even the Japanese folk choir of Kenji Kawai's original score. But as for the movie itself, it's so... bland.

    It didn't take long to figure out why. The original being so iconic, it's complex plot has been milked dry by future films that were influenced by it, the current plot feels so dumbed down and rather token, reducing this film arguably to some of it's lower tier imitators. Funny enough, a lot of the rowdy guys in my time of viewing ended up falling asleep and snoring loudly within 45 minutes. :lol:

    There's also a good chance that those who were annoyed with the whitewashing will get even more fired up with a certain third act reveal. While I was one, I've set my expectation bar so low it's caught on someone's private piercing, I've long since stopped caring.

    Better luck next time.
     
  18. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire baritone6/8 string hoarder

    Messages:
    4,488
    Likes Received:
    1,626
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I think I'm just going to go back and rewatch all of the anime/animated films. The trailers made it look good but I don't think they can bring anything new to the the ghost in the shell franchise with this film.
     
  19. MFB

    MFB ExBendable

    Messages:
    11,847
    Likes Received:
    1,098
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I watched the original last night, and after possibly the most underwhelming resolution, I'll probably skip this. I'm sure visually it's great and all, but that doesn't change that it'll be asking the same questions and hit the same marks, just in non-anime form.
     
  20. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    4,055
    Likes Received:
    164
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Location:
    WI
    Several of the reviews I read suggested it didn't even try to hit many of the same ideas, and thus shouldn't really be considered as trying to be like the first movie. Like, instead of seeming like a dumbed-down version of the classic first film, it was trying to do its own thing which happened to be much less interesting, but should be viewed as sort of a standalone.

    It sounds dumb. If anyone else asks me to go, I'll watch it, but I don't know anyone who wants to see it at all, so I'll probably end up renting it for 1 dollar somewhere way down the line!

    One thing I'm seeing in some of the reviews is that Ghost in the Shell 2 is quite good. I might have to check it out? I absolutely do not have the patience for the series, but I can do another movie!
     

Share This Page