Genocide in Gaza. Shame

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by chopeth, Jul 12, 2014.

  1. chopeth

    chopeth SS.org Regular

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    [​IMG]
    Israel Sderot Cinema. Israelis bringing chairs to the hilltops of Sderot to watch bombs fall on Gaza. Clapping and celebrating every time they hear a blast. They probably forgot when the nazi officers gased their grandparents.
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. necronile

    necronile SS.org Regular

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    If I would suffer daily from rocket attacks I would have been clapping and singing myself to..
     
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  3. SD83

    SD83 SS.org Regular

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    If my home was under siege for years, after being invaded in a war (doesn't matter if the war was in itself justified, invaded territory is still stolen territory and while this was buisness as usual in less civilized times, it has always been reason for centuries of hatred), I would probably be building rockets myself. If the people on the other side of the border had supermarkets full of stuff, and I rarely had electricity, let alone fuel or anything, and someone told me they had everything and we have nothing because they keep us from getting it, I would be pissed. If the neighbouring state was building fortified settlements and defending those at all cost on territory which by international laws does not belong to them but to the state I live in, I would definitly be on the road throwing stones at tanks.
    As long as the Palestineans tolerate retard terrorists, there will be war. As long as the Israelians tolerate the settlers and keeps Gaza under siege, there will be war. Both sides have to get their shit together and start to get along.
    That said, I regard anyone who fires at a civilian building as a terrorist. If that person wears a uniform or not, if that person acts under goverment command, that doesn't change the fact that they are purposefully targeting civilians. And from what I read or heard, the last weeks of conflict have not seen one Israeli victim. Which can not be said about the Palestine side.
     
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  4. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I did a quick read about what's going on.

    Is it true that the Israeli counterstrikes were in response to attacks from Gaza?

    Is it true that over 550 rockets have been fired into Israel since the first four initial attacks?

    If those two are facts, then you're saying that it's barbaric for israelis to defend themselves?

    Or are you saying that the one group which set up chairs to watch is representative of all Israelies, in the same way that all Muslims are represented by those Muslims who danced and celebrated after the gruesome attacks and deaths of 9/11?

    I hope not.


    I don't think you can extend the actions of a few idiots to all members of a particular group.

    Funny story: At some point, I was in Veraun, outside of Donostia/San Sebastian, and some guys in a bar were talking about how Spain was attacking and killing Basques. I asked how many Basques had been killed by Spain in the past 5 years, and how many had been killed by ETA for not supporting ETA. My friends rushed me out of the bar, because Veraun is definitely an ETA-supporting town.

    And yes, ETA has killed many Basques who didn't support its terrorism, more Basques than Spain in recent years.

    Are all Basques terrorists or ETA supporters? No.

    Are all people in Gaza terrorists, or supporters of Hamas/Hezbolla/whatever? No.

    It's terrible that these groups are entrenched, and that they use the civilian population as cover for their activities. I think we can both agree on that.
     
  5. vansinn

    vansinn SS.org Regular

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    Doesn't really matter that much which side this time launched the first one, or exactly how many has been used..
    Is-ra-el was placed there on stolen land during 1948/49, and has been expanding aggressively ever since.

    When they bombed the strip some years ago, they used white phosphorous and choose around 11-11.30 am, because the Palestinian school system is split in two-shifts, so at this time kids are en-route to/from, so max casualties.
    Read the book "The President's Son", written be the son of the general who recommended the '67 flash war - but also suggested from there on to let Palestine have it's own rule, as he was sure there could never be peace when occupied land have both part-own rule, and part external control. Well, this didn't happen..

    Good seeing so many Western bizzes are turning away from work there.

    It is IMHO really also abuse of the Jews, as they were simply transported there in the first place; a Zionist scheme.
     
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  6. Skyblue

    Skyblue SS.org Regular

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    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    Whether you believe it is legitimate for the Hamas to fire rockets to Israel, don't judge us all based on the actions of a bunch of idiots. Extremists, I'm afraid, you can find in both sides of this fight, and I despise them all, jewish or palestinian or whoever.

    Also, I'd find it quite hard to call what's going on "genocide". The IDF goes as far as calling people on the phone and letting them know they are about to shoot their house (if, of course, they have a reason to do so) so they'll have time to run away.

    I wish this fight, and the whole conflict would be solved and we could live here peacefully as neighbors. I really do. But as long as my house is being bombarded by missiles, and it is at the moment, and Hamas is firing it's missiles at innocent civilians, don't expect me to be angry at the IDF for fighting back.
     
  7. UnderTheSign

    UnderTheSign SS.org Regular

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    And as long as both Israeli and Palestine citizens feel that way, the conflict will never end.
     
  8. Daf57

    Daf57 5 7s in 4ths

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    I will never fully understand what it's like to be on either side of that conflict. For that reason I'll reserve judgement on how they deal with that pressure.
     
  9. SD83

    SD83 SS.org Regular

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    Daf57 has a point though. As much as my head tells me that is exactly the problem, I have no doubt that that is hard to do if you're in that situation.

    I'm not against war in general. If you are under attack, no one should deny you to do whatever necessary to protect yourself. However, the impression that I, here in Germany, get from the media, is as follows: Hamas shoots missiles at Israel. Missiles do some damage, some people wounded. Israel feels threatened, and soemone in charge decides that offense is the best defense. Strikes back, bombs some targets in the Gaza strip, people die. Maybe electricy gets cut off or the border blocked. Palestineans mourn their dead, Hamas blames Israel, some people believe them. Hamas shoots missiles at Israel. Repeat.
    Both sides have to change, and they have to do it at the same time, I guess. Not gonna happen, for reasons mentioned above. :(
    It's kinda sad to see that news from Israel/Gaza get less coverage in the media (biased or not, and I feel that the bias in Germany is rather pro-Hamas) than the Worldcup. Even worse that other wars, raging at dozens of places, get virtually no media coverage.
     
  10. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I always thought the most amazing media oversight which I've personally witnessed was that no one ever asked the PLO why their map of the restored Palestine was exactly the same shape as Israel. *laugh*
     
  11. sojourner

    sojourner SS.org Regular

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    Double standards..
     
  12. Addison90

    Addison90 SS.org Regular

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  13. ThatCanadianGuy

    ThatCanadianGuy Where am I? D:

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    I love how passively they're trying to portray the bias.
     
  14. Ed_Ibanez_Shred

    Ed_Ibanez_Shred Baritone sixes

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    I don't understand all the argument. They're occupying someone else's country… it's as simple as that, is it not?
     
  15. SD83

    SD83 SS.org Regular

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    While that might be true, and I can't say for sure, although it pretty much matches my information, it is still only part of a larger truth, and that includes that at least parts of the Hamas still deny Israel's right of existence. That includes that over decades,, the PLO's way of "fighting for freedom" included deliberatly killing civilians, kidnapping, blowing up airplanes, all that sort of nice things. And it includes Hamas firing rockets at civilian cities.
     
  16. SpaceDock

    SpaceDock Shred till your dead

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    I won t claim to be any sort of expert on this it from what I've read, the Isrealis have not had a single death from the Gaza rockets because of the Iron Dome defense system while Gaza is well over 100 deaths in a few days including many civilians.
     
  17. Crabface

    Crabface SS.org Regular

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    I live in israel at the moment but i was born and raised in england for most of my life so I tend to keep very up to date with english media, and i must say, they do an awful job of showing the whole picture and educating the nation on the exact details. English media is very, very pro-palestinian... or more likely anti-israel, because anytime there is an arab terror attack on any other nation england would never side with them.

    The main Pro-Palestinian argument from the western world is based around the idea that Israel deny Gaza basic human rights. They totally ignore the fact that they are talking about a place run by a terrorist organisation who also deny their own people basic human rights let alone jews - who they would destroy in an instant given the chance. That's the difference. Israel could obliterate Gaza if they wanted to, but they dont. The hamas, on the other hand, wouldnt think twice before destroying all of israel if they could.

    The Hamas is a terrorist organisation which controls palestine, and as ling as they are in control there cannot be peace. Not because Israel dont want it but because they refuse it. The Hamas care more about killing others than caring for themselves. They stone their own woman to do death if they sleep with other men, they obligate women to wear stupid ....ing hats on their heads at all times and they cannot show skin. They kill anyone who opposes them and they give 8 year olds weapons. They hide weaponry in normal civilian houses just so that when israel attack them Israel look bad to the outside world.
    If this is not a breach of human rights then i dont know what is.
    I DO NOT agree with everything israel does, but pro-palestinians who run around preaching "free palestine" are quite frankly ignorant to the facts. As bad as the situation in gaza is, it would be far, far worse if israel werent around and hamas were let to run free. Israel supplies gaza with electricity, food and clean water. They are not there to kill them, but when under threat israel will happily take it away if necessary.

    Just know that israel have NEVER been against peace. They have treaties with Egypt and Jordon which have gone unbreached since they were signed. Israel have had 6 agreements signed with the hamas all of which have been breached within months. By the hamas. Israel has never denied peace.

    With that said, I am not happy with Bejamin Netanyahu as prime-minister, mainly because he is rather trigger happy and he puts israel under a bad light. It's rather obvious that Israel are far, far stronger than the hamas and they needn't be so violent. That said, i do think that this is a war where one side will not listen unless threatened and, although i do not like it, i do think that israel are within there rights to fight back with force.

    People seem to have misconceptions about israel. Israel is a very advanced country. Their medicinal and technological advancements help the whole world and no country in the world contributes nearly as much to the world per capita as israel. Israel is also known as the hub of business startups for how succesful they are.
    Israel are trying to do everything they can to be seen as equals in the modern world and what they have achieved over 65 years is quite frankly astonishing, the problem is that as long as the countries around it wage war against israel, israel will be seen as partners in crime.

    That last paragraph may seem a little off topic, but its just demonstrating which country in the middle-east really wants to advance and which country are just set in their ways to do what theyve been doing for centuries. killing and selling oil.


    Sorry if this post was a little disjointed and makes little sense, i'm very tired and desperately need to sleep :haha:
     
  18. Crabface

    Crabface SS.org Regular

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    That is quite frankly the worst, most biased explanation i have ever seen, and many of the things said are simply not true.
    There was no palestinian state before the establishment of israel. It was only a location on the map. Israel was legally established via a vote in the UN, and then the arabs - who disagreed with the LEGAL DECISION - attacked israel, and lost. although at the beginning many arabs were driven out of their homes - understandably due to the fighting - israeli arabs nowadays have equal rights to anyone else in israel and live in peace with them. I invite anyone to come to israel and speak to an Israeli-arab or bedouin and ask whether they would prefer leadership under the hamas or the israeli government (Which btw, is more democratic and less corrupt than the majority of countries in europe, based of the Global Democracy and Corruption Indexes).
    They would prefer to live under the israeli government 100% of the time.
     
  19. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I've always thought it interesting that Jordan, which now has part of the land from the distribution, had its own internal problems with the Palestinians. When the king decided he had had enough, he gathered the mothers, wives and children of the internal terrorists, and told them that if they didn't turn themselves in, he would kill them.

    They turned themselves in and were executed, and that was the end of the problem.

    And yet the grudge is held against those who didn't take such drastic measures. *laugh*

    I remember a large project we did in school, wherein we actually did a chart of attacks on Israel versus attacks on Israel's various enemies, trying to see where and when first strikes occurred and when there were counter attacks. There was a striking disproportion in first strikes, depending on whether or not you gave credence to one point which the PLO constantly used, that of calling Israel's existence... "The Aggression." If you counted Israel's existence as a first strike, then Israel's existence was the reason for all of the attacks on it.

    If instead you took first strikes against other territories in the midst of peace as first strikes, then it was very one-sided. It seemed like Israel was reacting to attacks, instead of deciding to carpet bomb without provocation.

    BTW, where is the OP? I brought up the subject of ETA terrorism in Spain because I thought it was a very good parallel which I have an interest in, and since I've spent time in Spain and also speak Euskara, I thought it would be good to have some discussion on the similarities in the situations. ETA is still reacting to a history of life under long dead Franco, just as the Palestinian terror groups are reacting to historical facts as opposed to current attacks.

    Anyway, I hope he comes back....
     
  20. chopeth

    chopeth SS.org Regular

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    I read your post but I decided not to answer because of several reasons. One of them, I don't think there's too much similarity between both conflicts, it's up to opinion, anyway. You probably speak Euskera, not Euskara. Congratulations, seriously, that's a very difficult language. The problem with ETA and Franco (a simple way to say it, much more complex actually) died long time ago, it was just the remnants of a conflict which doesn't have anything to do with the situation today. ETA, fortunately is virtually dead, and there's been too much pain and death, but I think the Spanish people, so as the Basque ones, are making a big effort to forgive each other. It's a political weapon used by our repulsive policians everyday, but (most)people want to turn the page. I obviously could be writing hours about it, but though you may consider it similar, I don't, so I don't find it relevant according to the topic, so I don't think I need to add anything else. That's just my opinion on the topic.
     

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