Finally Some Common Sense On Syrian Refugees

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by TRENCHLORD, Dec 9, 2015.

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  1. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    What is interesting about the logic of banning all in order to prevent harm from a few is that it is an inversion of the logic used to justify availability of weapons, in spite of the constant mass shootings by mostly white males of christian origin.

    It's always puzzling to see an embrace of two arguments which are diametrically opposed, and which require accepting or rejecting the same basic logic. That just reeks of having a hidden motive which one is just veiling to make more palatable.

    What's interesting is, if one were to remove the weapons from the situation, you''d have removed the ability of both the muslim *and* the christian terrorists to go on mass shooting sprees. That's what keeps the inverse argument from being a dichotomy.
     
  2. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    It took me a moment to find, but here's the logic in a nutshell.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Mprinsje

    Mprinsje st. anger ain't bad!

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    Jesus christ, nationalism/patriottism is the stupidest .... known to man. You didn't do jack .... to be born where you were, you don't deserve some kind of special treatment just because you were by sheer cause of coincidence born on that piece of the earth.
     
  4. AxeHappy

    AxeHappy SS.org Regular

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    So much this. It's like when terrorists destroy something in the name of religion, and then all the people who want to ban gun are all like, "RELIGION ISN'T PART OF THE PROBLEM. IT'S JUST A FEW BAD APPLES."

    And then the gun nutters, as you say, flip their logic around too. For ....'s sake people...
     
  5. ncfiala

    ncfiala Silence you bastard

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    There is a big difference between these two situations that you fail to mention. The Constitution grants American citizens the right to bear arms but it is completely silent on immigration. No one has a right to come here.
     
  6. AxeHappy

    AxeHappy SS.org Regular

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    The constitution doesn't explicitly cover immigration law to the extent it's being argued as of late.

    However, the constitution does prohibit religious persecution and advises that people who ARE being persecuted by means of religious discrimination WILL be given asylum without religious persecution.
     
  7. chaneisa

    chaneisa Marc Spector

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    This is my problem with politics. The middle ground that would be taking us in a better direction on certain issues can't be found because, commonly, neither side is willing to compromise. Both sides want their way without question, exactly as they see it, and that's the problem. I am a huge advocate of the right to carry, and I think people should be able to purchase firearms. But I don't believe the lack of restrictions we currently have on them is acceptable. I don't believe abortion is ok, BUT, I'm not one to deny a woman her right to such a thing. I would never do it/be ok with it if my spouse/girlfriend requested it, but it's not my call as to whether you can or not. I'm a Christian, and I am embarrassed by how ridiculous Christians have become in this country. The problem is everyone thinks their ideals are so perfect and pure that neither side is willing to budge.
     
  8. metallic1

    metallic1 SS.org Regular

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    Those people hate us, and allways have. If not for their situation, that their own government
    Got them into in the first place, they would be vocal about it, just like they were before their
    World imploded. They don't belong here, them and the isis scum that will undoubtedly leak
    In with them.
    When terror begins in the U.S, and is directly linked to people let in as refugees, then
    America will know it was a mistake to let them in.
    On a side note-- I'm an American who loves his country, and the freedom that is
    Found in it., I just have little to no respect for the clowns who are elected into
    Power, have been running this country into the ground.
    I personally believe there is no one who qualifies for the job of the next president
    Of the United States.

    Edit- I missed the fact that the op was banned... O well.
     
  9. asher

    asher So Did We

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    Are you talking about the part fourteen years ago where we decided to fly on down there and wreck everyone's ...., make a mess, then leave?
     
  10. kmanick

    kmanick Contributor

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    So we already know ISIS has come right out and told us , they will be smuggling in terrorists with the refugees.So on the liberal quest of moral superiority should we should we just put our heads down and hope for the best.? Our own intelligence and FBI have come out and stated we cannot vet these people properly. How about using common sense and putting the breaks on and shoring up how to properly vet them so we don't see San Bernadino over and over again.
    I'm wondering on the other side of this coin if the liberals would be balking if the majority of the refugees were Christian.
    The one thing I do not get about this whole "Go Muslims" thing going on with the left is this?
    You do realize that Sharia compliant Muslims treat their women like 3rd class citizens, and that they routinely stone women and gays to death.
    They openly believe in multiple wives.
    The majority of these muslim refugees are Sharia compliant. Why do you want them here in the first place, their Ideals are so counter to those the left cherishes. I don't get it? :scratch:
     
  11. kmanick

    kmanick Contributor

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    Easy to get banned here... don't tow the party line? .....your days are numbered :nono:
     
  12. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    You missed something there in your reasoning.

    Let's say that David Miscavige, of the Church of Scientology, had somehow managed to gain control of the decision process on granting visas, and gave preferential treatment to Scientologists.

    Would that be an un-Constitutional bias towards certain faiths and against others on the part of the government? Yes, it would.

    I hadn't brought that up because it seemed obvious, but since you failed to notice, I apologize for not raising the point explicitly.

    Oh, actually... I did. I was talking about the dichotomy in that kind of thinking, and an embrace of certain things established in the Constitution while rejecting others is emblematic of such thinking.

    If rep were still used, I'd rep for you emphasizing that point, whether deliberately or not.
     
  13. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    Trench didn't get banned for his political views, he got banned for being an @sshole. Not an insignificant difference.
     
  14. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    Of course they'd say that. Even if they didn't plan to do it, they'd say it. You don't think they'd love to scare Western governments into ceasing to accept refugees, so that the people living in ISIS-controlled territory are forced to stay there and either be killed or be pressed into service as cannon fodder/baby factories (delete as applicable)?
     
  15. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I don't believe I've ever seen a liberal argument for giving any person or group less rights under the law than another based upon their. faith. That should give you a clue as to whether they would continue do to the same in the future.

    However... you do raise an interesting idea. You brought up San Bernadino, but skipped the Christian terrorist in Colorado, as well as other such actions by homegrown American terrorists. Since you are arguing that the left wouldn't be consistent (in spite of a lack of historical support for your assertion), would it be prudent to avoid putting our heads in the sand, and asking potential Christian refugees if they plan on killing gays, or bombing or shooting up women's health clinics?

    That's kind of a funny thing for you to bring up, given how hard the right has fought for the ability to deny women equal rights, access to reproductive planning, and protection for bigotry against gays.

    In fact, there was a recent event where THREE Republican presidential candidates met with the organizing pastor who has called for gays to be killed.

    If I put the search terms "christian kill gays" into a search engine, how many results would I find of the right being all right with Christian Sharia? (If I'm mentioning it, what are the odds that I checked, and it's a decidedly non-zero number? *laugh*)

    When the Republican frontrunner has met with a pastor who accuses Starbucks of flavoring its coffee with the semen of sodomites, and is okay with that, your comments about the left being okay with Sharia law seem to be in ignorance of what is happening on the right.

    You're mistaking endorsement of religious zealotry, and even willingness to jettison rule of law in favor of religious values, with adherence to Copnstitutional principles (see my example about religious preference on the part of government, which is un-Constitutional).

    Are you arguing that values like those in the Constitution should be readily abandoned? If that's true, they wouldn't truly be a deeply held principle among those who are so willing, would they?
     
  16. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    Any refugees who enter the United States will have to abide by our laws. They can *believe* whatever they want - and there are plenty of native-born Americans of diverse religions who hold beliefs as bad or worse than those - but they will be severely limited in how they can act on them. In the meantime, they'll be exposed to all of that American culture that we loudly proclaim is the best thing on earth; surely that will convince them that they should change their beliefs, yes?

    Would we be balking if the majority of the refugees were Christian? Of course not. That's why we're so offended that you're saying "hang on a minute" because they happen to be Muslim.
     
  17. FILTHnFEAR

    FILTHnFEAR Infidel

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    Why do you even bother, Trench? :lol:
     
  18. ncfiala

    ncfiala Silence you bastard

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    Well you're wrong again. The Constitution protects Americans from discrimination on the part of the US government on the basis of religious affiliations. It doesn't protect the whole damn world. We can refuse entry to anyone for any reason. Even Trump's full-blown ban on muslims proposal is being called constitutional by some experts.
     
  19. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    If nothing else, the part where he wants to ban Muslim citizens from re-entering the country is definitely unconstitutional.
     
  20. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I'm more than positive at this point that you've avoided reading the First Amendment entirely, and quite possibly only know about the Second Amendment because it supports what you personally care about.

    The First Amendment, in the Establishmnt Clause, forbids the government from making any law "respecting an establishment of religion." It not only prohibits an official religion being stablished, but also forbids government actions which unduly favor one religion over another, or even from favoring religion over non-religion, or vice versa.

    If you wish to argue how your view is compatible with where the Constitution outright disagrees with you, I'm interested in hearing your twisted logic. However, if you merely want to state that the Constitution doesn't address this, you're arguing against reality and, further, demonstrating that you're not really interested in learning the facts.

    I gave the hypothetical Scientology example to make it clear how governmental favoritism is forbidden under the Constitution.

    You did bring to my attention that there are some who claim to be experts on the Constitution who have managed to skip learning about the Bill of Rights, similar to you. That just puts them into the same category of reality denial as you.

    Scary. Thanks for the heads up!

    ----

    Assuming you have any interest in facts, do some reading on "establishment clause" from sources which are from general law schools. You'll likely find a different view than the one which is obviously cherrypicked.

    Happy reading!
     
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