Fanned 40"-37" Kalium Guitar Works Quake. Production run of 5 Quakes

Discussion in 'Bass Guitar Discussion' started by ixlramp, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,120
    Likes Received:
    796
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Location:
    UK
    Apart from Dingwall it's surprising ultra long scales are still so rare, but then maybe it's not surprising due to the chicken-and-egg problem with string availability.
    Also i'm rather fed up with the 'fixed position one finger per fret' obsession wich is working against longer scales. I consider it bad (unhealthy) technique to play tight strings with your fingers stretched into extreme positions. When i started playing basses another bassist said 'you should do this ..' one finger per fret covering frets 1-4, i was thinking WTF you expect me to play like this?
     
  2. Bigfan

    Bigfan sixstringer

    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    279
    Joined:
    May 1, 2010
    Location:
    Karm√ły, Norway
    From what I've heard, a lot of bassists basically omit the ring finger when playing stretchy stuff, instead using the finger 1-2-4 on three consecutive frets. As a guitarist it feels unnatural at first, but it makes a lot of sense at 34"+.
     
    LordIronSpatula likes this.
  3. LordIronSpatula

    LordIronSpatula Indeed.

    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    71
    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Location:
    CA, US
    I generally use 1-2-4 over 3 frets in lower positions, switching to one finger per fret in higher positions - kind of analogous to how upright bass fingerings transition from 1-2-4 half steps to 1-2-3 half steps. There's obviously still a big difference from my 42" upright to my 35" electrics, but 1-2-4 certainly feels much more relaxed. It goes without saying that would apply even more so at 37" or 40" on electric, very good point.

    Much like ixlramp, I've had guitarists tell me that bassists who don't use 1-2-3-4 in all positions are making excuses, and that it's perfectly reasonable to stretch and hold that position to play challenging passages in low positions. Yeah, OK bro. I will use one finger per fret for certain runs where shifting to a new position is impractical, but I will actually shift back and forth slightly within the position, and go back to a more collapsed hand posture whenever possible. I know from experience that it makes a difference, and I have pretty big hands LOL...
     
  4. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,266
    Likes Received:
    740
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Location:
    QLD, Australia
    I use my 4 fingers per fret as much as I can, thats how I learn and thats the only way I can play Dream Theater stuff. You cant do that with 12-4 fingers. Unless you changing to another string and the fingering would be eassier to cahnge your pinky note for the ring finger so you can then land on the picky on the next string up, so you keep pressing the new note with new finger instead of jumpiing strings with the same finger. You accomodate for the riff.

    also I dont leave my hand streched all the time, thats stupid. You move a little sideways. which for a fast passage its more efficient to move you hand a tinny bit to do 1-2-3-4, rather than the jump shift to do 1-2-4 ..... this IF you are playing over 4 frets. which is usually the case, barely you see a riff of 3 notes that it is over 3 consecutive frets

    but I do use my pinky on the bass way more than my ring, specially when the riff are 5th/8th notes from the previous one, or note closer in shape between strings
     
  5. LordIronSpatula

    LordIronSpatula Indeed.

    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    71
    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Location:
    CA, US
    That's exactly what I meant by shifting back and forth "within the position." Maybe it was a somewhat ambiguous way of describing it. I wouldn't play something like the main chromatic riff from Erotomania with 1-2-4 either, the shifting absolutely would make it too convoluted to be worth it on electric.

    But if you put sheet music for that line in front of a legit upright player, their fingering would involve extra shifting, probably in the form of repeating a finger over certain adjacent notes, and use only 1-2-4. I posit that increasing the scale length of a bass guitar will at some point make using one finger per fret generally impractical. Exactly when that would happen I don't know, and would depend on the player. Both of us (maybe you more than I) can make it work at 34". But I've never seen anyone do it on an upright at 42" and these quake basses are approaching that mensure.
     
  6. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,266
    Likes Received:
    740
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Location:
    QLD, Australia
    yeh I guess at 42" scale things gets different. Im pretty keen to try a dingwall 37"/34" and maybe stuff you would do as a 1-2-4 you would 1-1-4. but again in my mind is still more efficient to move my hadn a litle and change the finger instead to repeat a finger in order to reach the next note quicker. But again, it all depends on the riff and more importantly the speed of it. If its slow who cares, use one finger for everything, but at higher speeds you playing changes

    like for example that Erotomania initial riff, you have frets 2-3-4-5, then you change to the A striing for 2-5-4 and back to the E with 3

    so:
    ------------------
    ------------------
    ----------2-5-4-
    2-3-4-5--------3-

    for the A string part I would use my 1-4-3 fingers, so then I could land the G note with my middle finger and not change my hand possition. I could easily play that A string part without my pinky, but then my hand goes into a twist angle so I could do the weird stretch to reach and tehn I would have to use my index finger for the final G note(and re-use the same finger for the next lick), or string skip my middle finger, which both options arent efficient when you could just leave your hand in the general area and use the 4 fingers. a 34" bass helps for this of course..... or worse play it with 1-4-4 or 1-4-1 or something like that which takes accuracy out when you are repeating the same finger for a different note as it can sound as a slide or one of the note wont be fully pressed/played. ect ect

    if not having a 37" bass would push me even more to use my 4 fingers to have the less amount of travel between notes and be able to play the riffs at speed, by not using one finger Im pushed to move my hand further between notes and obiously my hand doesnt stretch to 37" scale gaps.


    reason guitar players skip a finger is because their gaps are smaller and its more comfortable with 3 fingers. Plus having a finger ready for the next note on a different string, or simple because its pretty hard to bend or do vibrato with your pinky hehehe
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  7. saved

    saved SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Location:
    greece
  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    15,216
    Likes Received:
    3,081
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    My fingers aren't super long (maybe a tiny bit longer than average), but I am blessed with some pretty stretchy hand and finger joints, and I still sometimes have trouble covering one fret per finger, even at 35". I don't see why anyone should be expected to hurt him/herself for the sake of some 1:1-ness that doesn't really matter to anyone who doesn't have severe OCD.

    I used to play the flute (thanks to Focus and, to a lesser extent, Jethro Tull), and I was loaned a bass flute for a time. I'm not sure if non-flute-players are aware of this, but on a "regular" soprano flute, your fingers go over the holes. You have some levers and whatnot to make sure certain other holes plug up, but, the main holes are 1:1 and onto finger positions. On a bass flute, though, the damn thing is too long for that to make any sense without ripping your hand apart, so there are keys that are way off from the hole positions.

    Anyway, I could see ultra-long scale basses taking a similar approach (fretted only, of course) by going with a mechanism to keep the player from having to stretch so far. I think the concept might be totally outrageous for bass players, but I don't see a problem. You could still get vibrato, not that you'd really need it for the first three fret positions that much anyway...

    But yeah, play however you feel most comfortable.
     
    Winspear likes this.
  9. Esp Griffyn

    Esp Griffyn Play more music

    Messages:
    5,372
    Likes Received:
    427
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Location:
    Gradually going Tornado
    I don't can't think of any credible bassists who use a one finger per fret approach, certainly not in the lower registers, it's just a fast track to an injury. I can't think of any bass educators that advise it, though I can think of may who specifically advise against trying to employ it.

    I don't think it's fair to say that a technique that no accomplished bassist (as far as I can think of) uses is "working against longer scales".
     
  10. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,120
    Likes Received:
    796
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Location:
    UK
    Good that's a relief, i had some bad advice then.

    saved, that FB video isn't much good, you're not missing much, the youtube one i posted later is much better,

    The other issue that needs sorting out is how most basses are shifted too far to the left when on a strap. This seems to be unfixed since Fender designed the P-bass (most basses are still essentially P-basses). The nut is difficult to reach to and causes unhealthy hand / wrist posture, while the bridge can easily go a few inches to the right with no issues. Consider how more shifted to the right a bass is when sitting and how it becomes more playable, that shift should be preserved when on a strap.

    You can fix this on any bass by moving the rear strap button to the front of the body, at the top about halfway along the body, this also improves balance.
     
  11. Esp Griffyn

    Esp Griffyn Play more music

    Messages:
    5,372
    Likes Received:
    427
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Location:
    Gradually going Tornado
    You think the nut it hard to reach on a P Bass? Fender basses hand very far to the right, the nut is very easy to reach. Something like a Thumb will put the nut further to the left, but I don't struggle reach it as a 6 foot bloke.

    The first problem most bassists seem to be suffering from is wearing their basses too low on a strap. People moan about Thumbs, Streamers, Spectors etc being uncomfortable and it turns out they're wearing them low like they're some bang-em-out metal bassist or something.
     
  12. xwmucradiox

    xwmucradiox sweep.tap.sweep

    Messages:
    2,037
    Likes Received:
    372
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Location:
    Maryland
    Wearing a bass low makes the geometry of playing easier for some folks. You can angle the neck more sharply upward which requires less reach to play on the low end of the neck. When I play my Dingwall with a strap I usually play it pretty high but the 3rd string tuner is at the very furthest end of my reach. I'd I played it lower and angled it up tuning would be no problem.
     
  13. saved

    saved SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Location:
    greece
    Just waned to hear this F# :(
     
  14. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,120
    Likes Received:
    796
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Location:
    UK
    saved,
    This video has bad audio and is over the noise of NAMM, but this Quake is tuned low to high G#00 (13Hz) C# F# B (standard 5 string B as top string). The F# is played a few times near the start of the video.
     
  15. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,120
    Likes Received:
    796
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Location:
    UK
    I don't touch Fender type basses, loathe them, but the horn button is above the 12th fret which is good and similar to many modern basses like my BTB in the avatar. However this still shifts the bass too far to the left compared to sitting.

    It's not a case of trying to reach the nut, it's a case of keeping a healthy wrist posture while playing there. Most bassists are used to it so won't be aware of a problem, but i can't play a conventional bass on a strap due to this shift, and i'm 6ft. tall too.

    A low bass greatly improves playing ergonomics as long as the neck angle is also increased, it brings the nut closer and reduces the twisting of the wrist. Unfortunately conventional basses are neck-heavy even when horizontal and become rapidly more imbalanced at higher angles due to the poorly chosen placement of strap buttons (hasn't been rethought since the 1950's).
     
  16. saved

    saved SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    21
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Location:
    greece
    I know thie video but the sound is awful.thats why i am trying to find an other one.
    I wan to compare other basses F#0 with mine.
    I have a p-bass with mudbucker and it can turn realy dark sounding.
    Other basses with F#0 i found on youtube dont sound good for me
     
  17. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,120
    Likes Received:
    796
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Location:
    UK
    26229852_969833003171397_4019402757889867017_n.jpg

    Better photo of the latest Quake.
    The new FB page for all Kalium departments (strings, basses, cabinets, amps) is https://www.facebook.com/KaliumMusic/
    If anyone is seriously interested in ordering a Quake and can't get in touch with Skip, PM me i might be able to get you in touch.
     
  18. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    15,216
    Likes Received:
    3,081
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    Dang, that looks nice.

    I'm still not 100% on board with the headstock, but as an entire package, I really like that bass (not that there are other options for a 39.55" multiscale bass).

    That clip is cool, but I'm disappointed that he doesn't play anything at all musical to demonstrate. G#00 might just be too much for some people. At this point, I'd just love something with a low E0 or F#0 that sounds better than the other stuff available.

    Maybe it's the Mandella Effect, but I swear I recall seeing a bass in a magazine that was supposed to be tuned down an octave lower than a standard four string. It would have been mid-1990s. I want to say it was a Warwick custom shop instrument, but I must be wrong, because after years of searching the internet, I find nothing anywhere about it.
     
  19. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear Vendor

    Messages:
    10,864
    Likes Received:
    1,452
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Southend-on-Sea, Essex, U.K
    I agree, I'd love to see more application. So far outside of metal down to E0 I've only really heard Yves Carbonne who is of course fantastic and uses notes down to B00 to reinforce his music with sub lines - sounds great on a good system and due to his layering you don't miss the lines on a bad system either.
    For myself I just want a fantastic E0 too.
    There is the Warwick Dark Lord? It's only 35" but marketed as an F# bass purely due to the strings and nut slots it comes with I guess.
     
  20. eggy in a bready

    eggy in a bready SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    183
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    i am the owner of the quake you see above.

    i can say that this is, without a doubt, one of the best basses i have ever played. i have a low F0, and it is shockingly clear. intonation is perfect up the board, very minimal fret buzz, etc. the nordstrands sound great through high gain. i didn't bat an eye at the 40" scale length, either, as the fanning helped immensely. i dunno if i'd do super technical runs on this thing (although you totally could if you had better finger dexterity than i), but for just chunking out some grooves, the quake is littttt.

    not to mention, skip is a great guy and took care of me very well.
     
    Bigfan and Winspear like this.

Share This Page