EU Referendum

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Maybrick, Jun 17, 2016.

  1. Maybrick

    Maybrick SS.org Regular

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    So I know the date is closing for the vote for Brexit but I was wondering what SSO (mainly Britains users) thoughts are on it?

    I'm not a political guy by any stretch so I've been trying to read up a lot of pros and cons for both sides. My general consensus is that there is no 'correct' answer as either side will have you believe, its just a case of "We'll have to wait and see"

    Also: any Brit users notice the rise in Political Experts on their FB feed?
     
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  2. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    I'm gonna write on this, but I'd like to apologize in advance if it turns out that I don't have a very good grasp of things. My understanding of why they want out of the EU is to be able to keep more people out as they see fit--which I interpret to mean they don't want a mass influx of Muslims more than they already have. I know that they weren't happy with all the Polish immigrants either, but does that factor in? I don't know.

    As an American living on a country that spans so much area, saying "lets import x number of Muslims" means absolutely nothing to me. We could drop them in North Dakota or Wyoming and never have to think about it ever again.

    But if I lived on an island with limited space, saying "lets import x number of Muslims" suddenly has a very direct impact on my life, especially if that number is very high. Now the argument becomes, is it acceptable for me to not want my life impacted in such a way? And I feel the answer is complex, and I don't even know how I'd vote.

    It's ironic, because I actually live in a sorta Muslim neighborhood of Chicago, and it's actually really nice. One of the safer places actually. But my understanding of these migrant peoples is that they're violent. Understandably so, I can only imagine how difficult it is to grow into a peaceful person if you are raised in a warzone.

    But like actually visualizing the effects of packing the local hotel with fundamentalist religious folk who come from a culture where totally unacceptable behavior is the status quo and practice a belief system that is diametrically opposed to humanism, it's actually a little freaky.

    Then again, to deny safe haven to a refugee is pretty ani-humanist as well. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: I sure am glad it's not up to me!
     
  3. oc616

    oc616 Control Deck Wins

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    Well, I'll be voting the way I'll be voting, but when it comes down to it. Here's the simple version:

    If America gets Trump, and/or we leave the EU, I get to smoke a big pipe full of "I told you so" when the problems start happening.

    The funniest thing I've seen so far is this "X amount of money spent weekly on EU could go on the NHS instead". Where was it confirmed by our Government that said amount of money would EVER go directly into the NHS they are trying to privatise?

    Oh that's right! A leaflet that popped through your door said so...
     
  4. cwhitey2

    cwhitey2 BlackendCrust Metal™

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    :lol::lol::lol:



    I cannot really give an educated opinion about whats going over the pond as I do not watch much tele.

    What I cannot understand is why governments would quantify any of this...saying X amount will be coming. Is it factual and or estimate? If it's factual have these individuals been properly 'screened' not that its even possible to screen them?

    Discussing refugee's/immigrants is a touchy subject and I understand why people would have different points of view. But when our government MAKES a state accept them when they clearly don't want them I have an issues with that. Whats the point of 'local' government?

    It doesn't help that the media here is going crazy with terrorism. Every 'attack' is now the worst in US history...when we forget how we took this country. Labeling every Muslim as a terrorist is :lol: I work with a kid who was from the heart of the war zones in Afghanistan. Nicest freaking person I have ever met in my life...would do anything to help anyone.

    I have more of a problem with people moving to my town from NYC then I do refugees or immigrants. :2c:
     
  5. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    While I'm living in part of the UK that isn't on the main island and not being here sufficient time to have a right to vote (but pay taxes and not even have the illusion I can participate in democracy by voting :/) I won't be able to participate in this election.
    What I can say is that the exiters rhetoric is mainly sentimental extreme right wing slogans for making Britain great again while the inners have a more logical and realistic approach of why they should stay in the more responsible neoliberal tending to more extreme right wing EU.
    Logistically the UK has more benefits in funding, scientific exchange and commerce if they stay in the EU than what little they give in the EU fund. Also bringing in 30000 refugees in a country of 18 million is hardly a security or economical risk. I recently read that they refused to accept 3000 unaccompanied children. Talk about a huge security risk.

    Anyway even though I'm an economic migrant from the EU, in one case nothing will change and on the other I'll have to go through the hassle of getting a work permit and visa until I can get the residency in two years.
     
  6. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger Contributor

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    Britain has a lot of reasons to leave besides the immigration issues. I know Ireland could benefit a lot from not being under so many ridiculous EU laws.

    I hope they stay, we would be f**ked here. We rely so much on them and having border control and no free travel will be such a pain.

    I'm not sure if I have this right but its likely they won't have free trade with the EU anymore so that means UK residents will have to pay customs on anything they buy outside of the country. So if you buy a guitar from Thomann in Germany you may have to pay customs on it as if you bought it from the US. I'm sure they will come to some sort of an agreement here.
     
  7. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

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    My take as an Italian is that EU is crap, but leaving is way worse at the moment, especially for UK.
    UK has been in EU in a very privileged way, both keeping their Pound and having a different way to deal with debt constrictions.
    UK debts are high, the moment they would leave the EU, the EU will start to retaliate in nasty ways, as already mentioned by Merkel.
    As I see things, if UK leaves EU it will have to resort to money from Arabian Countries, Russia and China (actually being purchased by them)...which is like going from the frying pan straight into the fire.
    And I would say that Arabians, Russians and Chinese are just waiting to purchase what's left of London that they don't already have.
    I totally understand EVERY single reason why the UK would want to leave, but I don't think it will work better for them.
     
  8. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    I'll be voting to stay in the EU. One thing I found interesting in the leaflets put through my door were that one of them cited their sources, and the other was kind of hyperbolic. Also, there was a paragraph in the "Leave" leaflet that read a whole lot like it was saying people in other countries didn't deserve the same rights we have.

    Being in Northern Ireland, I imagine we'll probably feel the impact of tightening borders, either on the border with the South, or possibly between here and Britain at airports and harbors. We've had our fair share of extremists who have taken action over less.

    Depressingly, polls suggest most young people want to stay, but a greater majority of old people want to leave. Hopefully our exiting generations don't screw things up for us.
     
  9. StevenC

    StevenC SS.org Regular

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    You hear that, UK guitarists? All you need to know!
     
  10. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

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    Then younger generations should tell the oldies to not mess with their future much more, as they already had a huge list of messes on their shoulders.
    What I'm going to say is not politically correct in the slightest, anti-democratic and I know it, but in cold reality what the damn should a 80 old geezer give about staying or not as he's going to..."move away" soon-ish?
     
  11. chopeth

    chopeth SS.org Regular

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    I think most young British are against Brexit because the good side of globalization and culture make us all eventually more similar in every country, but old people in Britain are different. In my opinion (I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings) older British have a sense of superiority over most other European people I don't know where it comes from. This, together with the easy old trick of fear for the future and the menacing immigrants stealing their jobs and raping their children is a very effective way to control people, as we see everyday everywhere.

    virtually ninja'd

    In Spain we have a very serious problem of corruption and very bad future expectations. The political party at the power is a CONFIRMED enormous machine of stealing the money from everyone. The young people want them hanged, but the old people and the rich are both afraid of changes and interested in this huge theft plot to go on (those affiliated to this party, almost a million people, some of whom get their piece of the cake)
     
  12. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

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    Politicians are the face of the problem.
    The true problem is the Bank system, that grabs Nations and Politicians by their balls.
    And since all the World Governments should agree to stop the power of the Banks, we are literally screwed.
     
  13. dr_game0ver

    dr_game0ver SS.org Regular

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  14. gtrplr71

    gtrplr71 SS.org Regular

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    this issue is not just a British issue it concerns even America as well. the fact is even if the vote is successful the Parliament will likely try to kick it back. ultimately if the vote is successful it will pave the way for Europe to bail out of the EU, which is nothing but a way to tax Europe to death and set a policy of indentured servitude for the whole of Europe. I support and hope it happens as the world as a whole is headed in a horrible direction. Just get on you tube and Find Paul Joseph Watsons videos.
     
  15. mnemonic

    mnemonic Custom User Title

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    Most of what I hear has to do with the effect on the economy, which makes sense, since I work in finance, that is what everyone in my profession is fixating on. The general consensus is there is no general consensus on what will happen. All we know reasonably for sure, is that there will be volatility in the market, since uncertainty means volatility. My guess is we will see a drop in the value of the GBP vs. the euro or USD, and a drop in the market which will then recover somewhat when people realize we don't leave on day-one. If we stay, the market might even rally, who knows.

    As for the issues for me, I'm more concerned with the political union with the EU than I am with immigration. If our membership were purely an economic partnership (which from what I understand, it was when we joined, though this was before my time), I would vote to stay, but I do not like the political union, especially given how undemocratic the EU really is.

    This will depend on what trade agreements are made if the UK exits the EU. Either way, nothing changes immediately, since it will apparently take two to three years to exit the EU.

    As for the EU 'punishing' the UK for leaving by enacting high tariffs on trade, many EU countries rely on UK trade, so they would also be hurting themselves by doing this. Given that the UK is one of the stronger economies in the EU at the moment, a leave vote will weaken the EU further.

    The EU hardly has a unified voice either, many other countries, specifically the eastern European ones have been in the news lately, butting heads with the EU, and I wouldn't be surprised if they brought up their own referendums too if the UK left. I heard many in france want a referendum on EU membership, but I don't know if thats a popular opinion or just a loud minority.


    This is the way I look at it; if we weren't in the EU and this was a vote to join, would you vote to join? I wouldn't.
     
  16. Chiba666

    Chiba666 SS.org Regular

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    Oh yes I've released that one side of my family are so right wing they make Varg look moderate.

    I've gone for the better the devil you know than the devil you don't. For better or worse.
     
  17. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    This is essentially the crux of the problem - Leaving the EU is basically a vote for Britian to leave one of the world's largest free trade zones. The UK does have two or three years to try to negotiate some sort of trade terms, but considering they'd basically be starting from scratch, I think you need to be realistic about how much could be done in that window.

    I don't think there's any real debate that leaving the EU would be bad for the UK's economy - bare minimum, the market believes this to be the case, and global stock market indices are up virtually everywhere as the odds of a Brexit appear to have fallen, after trading off for weeks as Brexit had begun to look more and more like a possibility.

    That said, the British economy isn't the only reason to stay or go, so if other factors outweight employment and economic growth, there certainly could be arguments to leave. Idunno. As an American who works in the financial sector, I'm hoping the Stay vote wins. We have enough economic uncertainty at the moment, breaking up the EU is the last thing an already fragile world economy needs.
     
  18. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    This is a decision that, I suspect, will have effects on Wall Street as well, which may well have ramifications on general life in the USA. If nothing else, US politicians will use it as an example to drum up more polarization.

    Either way, I hope the UK makes a wise choice.
     
  19. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

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    Leave EU and immediately see LSE replaced in importance by FWB.
     
  20. Zado

    Zado SS.org Regular

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    Ŕuuuuuuuuuuuunnn away for your lives you fools!!
     

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