Edge tremolo won't level out

Discussion in 'Luthiery, Modifications & Customizations' started by elkoki, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. elkoki

    elkoki SS.org Regular

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    I just got an Ibanez Prestige RG1570 that has an Edge Pro tremolo. I'm still pretty new to tremolos so I may be doing something wrong, I need help from the experts!

    I'm trying to tune to standard with 10-46 strings but it won't level out, even with the spring claw screwed all the way in. There's 3 springs in this formation \|/. I tried removing the spring retainer and adding another spring so that there is 2 springs on each side but if I do that I can't screw the spring retainer back on and the springs pop off really easily. I ordered a new set of "proline" springs thinking the ones I already have were worn out but these new ones probably have less tension and they pop off easily.

    What's going on? am I doing something wrong? should I be using 9's instead? For the moment I have settled on E flat to keep the bridge a little more level, but I want to be on standard! Help please!
     
  2. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Block it in the proper position. Unlock nut. Remove strings. Install new strings. Stretch new strings. Tune. Lock nut. Adjust fine tuners as needed. Remove blocks. Adjust Springs as needed. Done.
     
  3. elkoki

    elkoki SS.org Regular

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    Did you read my post?
     
  4. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Yeah, you didn’t mention how you were doing anything. At all. Like, not even a little.

    Can’t really help without starting fresh and making sure you’re setting it up using the proper methodology.

    Once that’s established we can start troubleshooting.

    Think of it as restarting your computer. :yesway:
     
  5. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    This is why I prefer tuneomatic bridges. Too much hassle just to go "meerrr-woooowwwww, weeee wooooo whooaaaaa."
     
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  6. elkoki

    elkoki SS.org Regular

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    I have had tremolo guitars before but i'm still fairly new to tremolos. I know how to set them up, and i've used that method before. But it doesn't help when I have the claw all the way in and the bridge still isn't level... That's the whole point of the post.

    The bridge won't go back far enough even with the claw all the way in. The springs are like this \|/. I'm using 10's. and still the bridge isn't far back enough.
     
  7. elkoki

    elkoki SS.org Regular

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    I prefer doing the eeeeeu wao wao
     
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  8. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Was I supposed to guess that? You literally said you were new to trems.

    I’m not spending all night pulling information out of you to try and fix your problem. Good luck.
     
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  9. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Link us to a picture of the orientation or angle of the trem plate.
     
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  10. elkoki

    elkoki SS.org Regular

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    Yes one second, but it probably wont be too clear . My phone camera doesn't capture it well, but i'll try. Keep in mind that the spring claw is maxed out and it's all the way in and it's tuned to E flat, if I tuned to E it would raise it up even farther. It's almost level as is but not quite.

    it should look more like this http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/angle.htm
     

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  11. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    Sometimes I've seen that even with new strings I have to keep tuning and tuning up to get it ro pitch. I just untune and start again trying to have all strings gradually go to the correct pitch than tuning one string to pitch and then do the rest one by one. This has helped me a lot in avoiding this issue and I don't use blocks. I know they make you life easier but I never bothered to get some.
     
  12. elkoki

    elkoki SS.org Regular

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    The main probably though is the bridge won't level out . It's just a tad too forward when it should be pulled back little farther by the springs but the springs are already pulling back as far as they can go because the claw is literally screwed all the way in. I thought I could add another spring but the spring just kept popping out . I guess I either need to get high tensions springs and see if 3 of them is enough or just try 9s instead of 10s
     
  13. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    Well for 10-46 three springs should be enough in E standard. I had faced this problem my self. I was tuning the guitar, had one string in tune, tune the rest then go back to the first one, it was out of tune etc ect until the trem was sitting high and the spring claw screw were a the way in. I detuned the guitar, brought the claw screw back to normal and retried a more gradual tuning per string. Then the trem was ok. It sti needed some adjustment with screw on the string claw but nothing as extreme as the first time.
    So that would be my suggestion. Detune all the way down, put the spring claw screws in a neutral position and retune again slowly and gradually.
     
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  14. elkoki

    elkoki SS.org Regular

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    If there's any confusion . What I mean by won't level out I don't mean the tuning. I mean the bridge itself isn't level. It's needs to be pulled back a little farther by the springs but it can't be because the spring claw is literally screwed all the way in . I have 3 springs , I've read online 4 or maybe 5 springs can do the trick but when I add more springs they just pop off . I bought a new set of them today . They're proline brand but they don't seem to stay in they just pop off
     
  15. elkoki

    elkoki SS.org Regular

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    I'll try tomorrow . Thanks. The post above this reply is to anyone who may have no understood the way I worded it before .
     
  16. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    Good luck. If it still doesn't work try the springs you bought. Some guitars behave differently and it depends on the strings and springs it has in. I tuned a guitar in Drop C with a 10-54 D'Addario set with a big L shaped brass block on Shaller Floys Rose II trem and three springs in V formation were enough. I tried the same thing in another guitar with an OFR in C tuning, not drop C, with a D'addario 11-56 set, a big brass block and had the same problem as you. Tried it three time and then I poppes in a 4th spring. Problem solved. Then I have another guitar in D with a big brass block with Ernie Balls 11-52's on an OFR and 3 springs in V are enough.
     
  17. elkoki

    elkoki SS.org Regular

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    I think I figured out the problem. The problem is that screws for the block won't secure tight enough and it starts to rock like this, and that causes all kinds of problems from the bridge not leveling properly to tuning issues. The solution is to basically replace the screws to longer 15mm screws... I will have to try this and I will update.
     
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  18. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    If that is the case, you should feel something loose when using the bar.

    You may in fact need new springs. Some are really loose, others are tighter...

    Do this, loosen all strings so the bridges sits back in its cavity, make a dive bomb and block an AAA batery between the trem and the front cavity, it should be more or less the correct size and the trem should look leveled even with loose strings. Tighten the trem's springs. Tune the strings to desired pitch. If the trem lifts up, then your springs are of no use for that string tension. Let's say the trem doesn't lift up, after all strings are correctly tuned, start to loosen the springs until the trem starts to lift. STOP and retune, check the springs again. do this enough times to have everything correctly leveled.

    Also, consider that most Ibbys with locking trems are set up for .009s, which means using according springs. Moving up to .010s may also mean to move the springs around. 7 String guitars have way more tension the 6 stringers...

    Finally, this spring configuration "\|/" has more tension than all springs parallel "|||"...

    Hope this helps.
     
  19. elkoki

    elkoki SS.org Regular

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    Hi, thanks. I don't have a bar (yet) to check. I also don't think it's the springs, at first I thought they were the problem so I bought a new set and they didn't help. The new ones were probably worse then the ones already on there lol. I tried the \|/ formation with no luck, and I also tried 4 springs and even at their max the bridge still wasn't fully level, ALMOST but not quite. I ordered a new set of high tension Floyd Rose springs that many people claim work great for higher string gauges, they won't arrive until tomorrow.

    I took the tremolo apart today and the block is really loose, so I tightened the screws (well some of them because some refused to tighten they just kept spinning) and it made the block really solid but after I placed it back in and began to strung it up the block got loose and wobbly again. So I ordered a set of new slightly longer screws. Today I found a similar post on another site and people claim this helped. Here's the link if interested , I should have the screws tomorrow and i'll update. BTW this is a 6 string guitar not a 7.

    https://www.jemsite.com/forums/f21/edge-pro-block-not-perpendicular-plate-136422-2.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
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  20. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    I've heard of stripped block screws before, thankfully that didn't happen to my guitars yet. Investigate if it's the screws thread that is stripped or the block's. If the latter you may need a new block also...

    If, for some reason the screws you got are too long, consider about shimming the block... or grinding down a bit of the screws' length.
     

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