Economy picking, suggestions, tips?

Discussion in 'Music Theory, Lessons & Techniques' started by Cyntex, Feb 28, 2010.

  1. chucknorrishred

    chucknorrishred SS.org Regular

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    theres some really good tips here, i stopped playing for a good while the i was looking at some 7 strings, when i found one and ended up buying it my drive to play has taken over again. any way economy picking is where i had left off and i like BlackMetalVenoms tip of using extended scales to practice eco picking, when u get to the high string u should land on a down stroke, play the last note again with an up stroke and go backwards using eco picking,

    how do u tab out music???id like to contribute my fair share of tabs
     
  2. ShadyDavey

    ShadyDavey 7ibrarian

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    My timing always goes to balls when I economy pick :agreed:

    Must admit I hadn't been aware of Tony doing much economy - certainly his two instructional videos had more alternate on but I must confess I haven't looked at his playing for ages and I suspect he's another one of those annoying guys that can do either :)
     
  3. Jackson kelly

    Jackson kelly SS.org Regular

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    Dude
    Dud
    Dude
     
  4. Jackson kelly

    Jackson kelly SS.org Regular

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    Hey sorry about those failed replys. It looks like i was being a smart ass. Not the case..i just suck at what i do....anyways... I am really struggling with learning economy picking. I taught myself to play with tabs. So im okay at guitar but so many bad habits.very sloppy. I developed decent speed in diong blues runs and metal runs but i do a ton of hammer ons and pull offs to get it done . an when i play blues its the same except i also implement my finger into it kinda like a half ass chickin pickin thing.lol. i used to hear all the good guitarists blazing tjrough runs but had no idea there were guidelines. So i got fast at alrenate picking in my pick hand and just.picked as fast as i could and thought that eventually it would all line up and be fluid . I. Have to play everything suoer slow cause im fighting tje muscle memory i built all tjese years. Im hoping i can find spots in some of the licks i already use where i can utulixe thjs picking style in place of my bad technique, but rigjt now im stuck on babysitting my hand. I have to go really slow and make sure i push straigjt to the next string when i switch. In fact thats the main thing im focused on as i go across the board. It is a pain. Its tough to figure out where to keep my hand posted. It seems like the answer is you dont. Cause when im descending i keep wanting to turn my hand upward to strike the last 3 lower strings an it doesnt work well. Got a ways to go. How long does it take on average to start to grasp this technique on average? Im just curious,because i wont allow myself to lead freely anymore tje way i did for a while and it sucks only being able to work on this new stuff as its very slow, frustrating, and unrewarding. When did you guys start to show improvement in learning this? Thanks for all your posts an tips. You guys are awesome for sharing. Good luck to you all. Any more poi ters you could think of would be great. Thanks.
     
  5. InCasinoOut

    InCasinoOut syncopAZN

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    To unlearn all those bad habits, it will take slow, deliberate practice and quite a bit of time until your new change in technique is fluent. I've been playing since 1999, and learned a lot of bad habits from being self taught, up until maybe only 5 years ago where I was unhappy with my ability to record guitar cleanly. I knew the problem was in my bad technique and started to challenge myself to learn all sorts of stuff I thought I'd never be able to play. I adopted economy picking when I took on the challenge of learning as much as I could from Planetary Duality by The Faceless. Even if you're not familiar with that album, my plan of attack to rebuilding my technique from the bottom up was to start with challenging music that I was very familiar with from a listening standpoint, so it was fun yet grueling work to see and hear my progress from sloppy and slow to being able to put on the album and play along to quite a lot in one sitting. I'd learn each riff or song at the slowest possible tempo I needed to play along accurately, sometimes even at less than 50% speed. On top of that, since I was playing slowly anyway, I'd pick each note as hard as I could while economy picking so that as I ramp up the tempo, I can start loosening the tension in my hand until I find that sweet spot of being able to play at full tempo while achieving nice pick attack. Even when I wasn't working along to a metronome or playing along to the songs, I'd take my guitar with me while watching tv, and just play whatever riff I was focusing on over and over and over again, just building muscle memory, especially in my picking hand (which I then realized was a big weak point in my playing). I'd use that time to further isolate and make mental notes of what parts were especially tricky, whether that was some awkward picking direction change, or skipping to another string, or inclusion of some other technique in the middle of a economy picking section. Then when I came back to focused practice, I knew what I needed to work on with the metronome.

    I've been doing that long enough now where I'm much better at economy picking, and now have to work all over again to get my alternate picking to the same level lol.
     
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  6. Jackson kelly

    Jackson kelly SS.org Regular

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    Hey dude! Yeah, i thought i was aware of all tje bad habits i had developed when i replied to this thread as i had just started working on economy picking the day before, but it was a little worse than i thought.lol. i spent the rest of saturday on my guitar working on economy picking, and was having problems with my pick hand..so.... I looked up. Proper pick technique, and had to re approach that as well... First off....i held it mostly correct, but had it slightly shifted beetween my thumb and forefinger. I didnt mess with that much, as it wasnt to drastic , an it may just be right for me, cause it a very suttle difference. But,, i dont tuck my other fingers in alongside my fore finger which the guy on the video i watched said it contributes to tension, an as you said...you need to be relaxed, and loose. Holding my hand that way makes me feel like im holding a foreign object in my hand. Its very akward beleive it or not. Tje thing that really sucked , is they angle the pick, but they angle it down a bit. An i actually figured out the angling of tje pick thing on my own when i was learning. Tje problem is...i angle it up, . i could see immediately that it wouldnt. Work like that. So now that ive corrected it , i dont feel like i know where to put. My palm anymore, however... I played all day sunday for at least six hours.( not in a row) an am feeling better an more cozy. Its not all bad news though. ...so here are some good points.... You know how. Frustrating and boring working on stiff like this can be, so i took a break and played jammed a little bit. On my old leads, and licks but stuck firmly to the new pick position, , and kept the theory of economy picking in my head as i did so i could see if their was a way i could not throw what i have learned in the trash an maybe just fine tune it a bit. I was excited to find that i could keep most of it , and noticed i started to use economy picking. Un conciousley herw and there, and also saw pathways in what i already used to apply economy picking. So i worked on that for a while. Also... I tried to do sweep picking years back but kindve gave up cause it was decent, but still kinda sloppy, and i didnt know where to use these sweeps in a solo. So i just left it. After spending three days obssesed with economy picking. I tried a sweep, and with the lighter hand,relaxed shoulder,not picking with my arm, and using my wrist. It sounded cleaner than it ever did. Still got to polish up the sweeps that involve finger rolls, but thats another story. Also, i realized that econo.y picking would answer my question about where to ise arrpreggios, because it seems like economy picking is going to make it so i can flow up or down, an every direction i desire like a flowing river. The way i see it....i need to learn some long movable scales that are tasty to me and learn to use econo.y picking to get across the fret board and back down without having a break or stop in tje flow. I have to go so slow though dude. It sucks but its aleady improving a tiny bit. At the same time , i got to practice speed running some chromatic scales, and excersises that are. Similar, but not so linear.. Any ways i appreciate your reply man. You have a good day. Ttyl.
     
  7. Jackson kelly

    Jackson kelly SS.org Regular

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    Hey dude! Im mew to this too. An yes these yechniques are indeed a bitch! I found a few different scales and excercises. At first i went on utube and found a string skipping excercise, a ascending and descending szale that was in notes of 3 so you could just work economy up and down. And its cool and totally helps with the mechanics but its a bit robotic. So anyways i needed to find a way to practice something tjat would work tje mechanics but also something i could relate to and implement into my playing. Sooo... I realized i always use. Scales that are 3 notes per string....like kirk hammet stuff. And scales that sound kinda like wherever i may roam.... Anyways... I always played in separate boxes. Up and down tje neck and only had like one path to move to and from... I also legato like crazy to make shot happen. I have been working on 6 note string skipping runs ... Using two strings only at a time crawling from the low end of tje guitar all tje way up to like the 17th fret. And back down. I start with e and a ..then go with a to d and so on. Anyways its helped me alot. Its teaching me all the notes and shapes for tje scale that im used to using . any ways .heres how i see it.( im hoping that is). With all of the notes and paths memorized and workable... I wil be able to go any direction on any fret an all the notes will work. So after i get it all down i can. Practice ascending up 2 or 3 strings tjen come back down ..or go up tjree and slideup fluidly, continue economy picking up a few more strings , then string skip down to and then. String skip up... Or slide up again and. Alternate pick bacl down. Ok i know i sound like a crazy man..but my point is im learnimg all tje path ways and notes so i can basically play a game with all the techniques. The. Game rules are ... Start some where and use economy, string skipping, and alternate picking, as well as obviousley inside picking. To keep me flowing. Notes out and trying to move all over the fret board avoiding boves without ever needing to stop. Ya get me? I got to play slow as hell .but. Its already helped a. Bunch. And when i get better atit. I knowill be able to actually use it in my playingcauseits familiar and i already gotthe. Hammer on and pull off 20 notes and pick 4 times thing down. With this same scale shape.. So right now i just got ti learn to pick all the notes really fast and later i can smashevery thingtogether. Lol. Sorry dude. I know im a little nutty but its all got man. Hopei it helps and good luck to you.
     
  8. billinder33

    billinder33 SS.org Regular

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    I'm usually not 'that guy' on internet forums, but...

    I really want to read what you have to say, but a lot of people, myself included, just can't grind through massive walls of text. For your own benefit, separate your thoughts into logical chunks using the return carriage. You'll get way more responses and useful feedback that way.
     
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  9. Jackson kelly

    Jackson kelly SS.org Regular

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  10. Jackson kelly

    Jackson kelly SS.org Regular

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    Hey...i apologize for the novel and the scattered thought. This my first time on a forum, and ive been drilling this economy thing for weeks everyday, so i just got all this junk in my head cause ive been cramming. Thanks for the advice. Ill keep it organized and to the point. Appreciate this forum and all the pointers.
     

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