Economy Picking - NEED HELP!

Discussion in 'Music Theory, Lessons & Techniques' started by billinder33, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. billinder33

    billinder33 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    44
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    I have used alternate picking for decades, but I'm trying to learn economy picking to learn licks that are not easy to do with alternate. But it's a struggle to not end up reverting to old habits. I have some questions for players here who came from alternate picking backgrounds and learned economy picking....

    1) how long did it take for you to 'get' economy picking and execute it without slipping into alternate?
    2) what were the practice techniques or routine that you used to help break the alternate picking habit?
    3) Do you use economy picking full time now, or do you use one or the other, depending on the material you're playing?
    4) if you economy pick only based on the material you're playing, how do you know when to choose which style you use?
    5) more tactical question... do you use economy picking when you do riffs that involve string skipping?

    thanks!!!
     
  2. Kaff

    Kaff SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    35
    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Location:
    Helsinki
    I'll start tho I'm just learning this myself.

    1) Haven't mastered it yet so no idea
    2) I practice economy picking with either my own compositions or scale sequences that have odd number of notes per string. Take a standard major scale for example, 3 notes per string.
    3) I do economy picking full time, so whenever the easiest route from one note to another is a sweep, I try to use it.
    4) as I economy pick full time, don't have to choose
    5) Don't have an answer to that yet, pick slanting might be a more efficient way to go about string hopping.
     
  3. prlgmnr

    prlgmnr ...that kind of idea

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    323
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Location:
    North Yorkshire, UK
    If you can "slip" into alternate and still play what you intended to play, it doesn't really matter, does it?
     
  4. billinder33

    billinder33 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    44
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Not sure what you're addressing... I'm studying lines that I cannot play effectively with alternate.
     
  5. prlgmnr

    prlgmnr ...that kind of idea

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    323
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Location:
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Those bits of your post.

    I thought you meant you were slipping into alternate picking while attempting to play lines, which suggested that the lines you were playing didn't require economy.

    The other thing whereby you keep wanting to play the stuff you can and not the stuff you can't...yeah it's tough. Just do 5/10/15 minutes a day of strictly working on economy and leave yourself time for just freely playing whatever.
     
  6. billinder33

    billinder33 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    44
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    ok, yes thanks. When doing lines that require economy, I keep slipping into alternate, because that's how I play 'everything else' that I didn't specifically practice with economy. That's why I'm wondering if people that spent years on alternate and then learned economy, do they use economy all the time or if they still do both?

    Now that I've learned some basics of economy, I do think it's overall the faster technique (though more prone to sloppy execution without maintaining discipline), all things being equal. Just wish I'd started working on it years ago, because i have alternate so deeply integrated into my current technique.

    I caught myself this morning during some improve practice doing a line that I would have normally done with alternate but this random time I used economy without thinking. Maybe over time and with lots of practice, you just evolve into using economy once you learn how to do it. Not sure, but interested to here how it's been for others.
     
  7. Kaff

    Kaff SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    35
    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Location:
    Helsinki
    ^ it's to be noted that economy picking is mostly alternate picking. If you mean doing an alternate pick where there should be a sweep by slipping, it happens to me still, especially in faster licks I've learned long time ago. But less and less every day, I think eventually repetition creates muscle memory that replaces old habits.
     
  8. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,202
    Likes Received:
    529
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
  9. Jobam-Martins

    Jobam-Martins Guitarrista

    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    34
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Hi. I have been using economy picking for 7 years. I'm going to try to help with Your questions.

    1) It depends. For me , some months.
    2)You need to use different phrasing,different patterns then You are used to. Some patterns that can help are from Frank Gambale in the beginning of Your studies. Sometimes, using legatos in the last notes of the phrase can help You maintain Your accuracy using this technique in the beginning of Your studies. Later on when You get used You can full time pick without having problems. Try to start using 3-note per string patterns on Your phrasing. For example, major scale, play 3 notes per string going down,up,down. The next string should be down again. Vice-versa. Up,down,Up, if You're going backwards.
    3)I use full time economy picking when improvising, soloing but in some cases I prefer to use alternate picking or legatos combined with economy picking because of the tones You can get from Your hands. For metal riffs, for example, I think it's better to alternate when doing pedal-point riffs or when doing tremolo picking.
    4)You need to feel what is the best sonority,tone,sound You want for that song You're going to play. After understanding how economy picking works You're still going to be able to use other techniques. Even fingerstyle, if You are into it. Sometimes You even need to play with Your fingers if You really want that soft sound.
    5) Yes.

    I hope that can help You a little bit.
     
  10. Alternative-Perspective

    Alternative-Perspective SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    48
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    I never understood the need for economy picking. Perhaps when playing licks that involve lots of odd groupings and could be confusing for the picking hand...
     
  11. Lasik124

    Lasik124 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    108
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Location:
    NJ
    Just creates a different sound is the simple answer. Some licks can be performed much quicker with economy and can sound kind of like sweep picking at points.
     
  12. Element0s

    Element0s Low Fantasy/Black Denim

    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    115
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    It's also just straight-up more comfortable for some people. For me, the principal behind alt-picking is dead simple. One hand is the brain that chooses the direction you go, the other is the machine that propels it forward. However, I have a real difficult time developing consistency in my movements and downward pick slanting doesn't feel natural to me so pure alt-picking, while it makes sense, doesn't jive with my internal wiring. I find Economy picking suits my thinking and natural rhythm more even though it's less consistent in approach.
     
    Rawkmann likes this.
  13. billinder33

    billinder33 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    44
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Thanks for the link! The triads ascending by b5's lend themselves very nicely to economy picking... I've been integrating some of these in my 'outside' playing. Very nice!

    The tap stretching exercises I'm find pretty challenging on a 30" scale neck, but I'm not much of a tapper, so that's probably part of it.
     
    Spaced Out Ace likes this.

Share This Page