Do any of you jazz players play metal, or vice versa?

Discussion in 'Jazz, Acoustic, Classical & Fingerstyle' started by acriticalcookie, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. Nykur_Myrkvi

    Nykur_Myrkvi SS.org Regular

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    I started out playing metal, studied a bit of jazz (not academically, just on my own time) to get new ideas. I love the occasional jazzy improv but I've yet to actually be in a jazz band. I'd love to start a fusion jazz metal hybrid band.
     
  2. CD1221

    CD1221 SS.org Regular

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    Just finished watching the first vic wooten workshop video the other day. Best 3 hours I have spent on something in a long time. Seriously outstanding.

    You should have made a new thread for that video so more people are aware of it.
     
  3. metalmonster

    metalmonster SS.org Regular

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    Told you it was amazing !

    You're right, this content is actually very relevant to music and relevant to this forum... And i'd love people's opinions and views, it's always good to exchange ideas, and perhaps people more knowledgable than me can contribute too and post more interesting stuff !

    http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ja...e-jazz-improvisation-whos-me.html#post3875825 One for the "i want to create a 7-string.org community of people following a free berklee course on jazz improvisation that's easy and free and fun and awesome" (why ? Because it's cool)

    http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ja...video-victor-wooten-workshop.html#post3875836 on the vic wooten WS, so people can share ideas about the workshop, perhaps add even more richness and interactiveness to it.

    One last topic went created in the process : http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ja...ongwriting-recording-process.html#post3875841

    On songwriting. I really, desperately need to know how other people create music. please help :)
     
  4. DropDizzle

    DropDizzle SS.org Regular

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    Reading through this thread I see a lot of people being metal players and going to jazz.

    After I wrote this I put in tl;drs, check for bold

    I'm the opposite, I was mostly a jazz player for most of my musical learning and always liked rock (started with classic rock because most of the mainstream new stuff was so boring in the 90's) but could never find stuff to keep my interest. Then my cousin introduced me to Dream Theater back in the early 2000s and I really dug it of the bat, harmonies, syncopation, no screaming (at the time I didn't like screaming, I do now), chugs, great guitar playing, etc. I had a hard time finding a group that I enjoyed as much as them so I just listened through all their albums randomly and kept on jazzin it up.

    Until last year when I saw Tosin Abasi and AAL and decided I wanted an 8 string, for jazz, maybe do some AAL style jazz/metal... "whatever that stuff was" I thought to myself. Read this forum and find out, it's djent.

    It was so funny too because I never read so much absolute love and pure disdain for one genre of music. "It's not a genre! It's a sound!" "Meshuggah is god!" ".... Djent!" "Does it Djent?" I was laughing so hard. I didn't give a shit what people thought about it. I knew the truth, Tosin knew his theory, and it showed.

    So basically, after that I kept hearing people talking about Periphery. So I got their albums and listened. I remember my first thoughts on a few of their songs almost instantly:

    MAKE TOTAL DESTROY (possibly the first song I heard from them): intro "Oh sick, nice line... syncopation, wtf is the drummer playing... he's good... damn they are tight, lots of post production sound but creative, clearly these guys aren't doing straight metal with only one harmonic minor scale and diminished scales." Then it got to the chorus "damn, kinda punk rock nasaly-ish voice, but he's got pipes AND he knows great vocal technique" Get to the verse "GOD DAMN HE'S GOT GOOD VOCAL TECHNIQUE AND THEY CAN LINE UP THE HITS TO BE IN BETWEEN THE SPACES OF THE LINES THESE GUYS ARE ....ING AMAZING!!!" Get to the next instrumental interlude right before the chorus again that has the cool syncopated rhythm "Wow, great tone on the guitars, and that drummer! He's got 8th notes on the high hat, hitting the bass syncopation with the guitars, crashing cymbals in between the spaces to great accents AND HITTING GHOST NOTES!"

    I was sold. Periphery has been my favorite band for this past year and I'm liking djent as a whole. I finally was able to find a metal style that IMO holds enough musicality to keep my interest to listen to the song more than once.

    tl;dr for that section I'm a jazz player of 14 years and wanted to find interesting metal but I couldn't until I listened to Periphery.

    Another thought: A lot of jazzy metal is mostly metal, with "some" jazz stuff thrown in. I think it would be interesting to have 51% jazz/49% metal. As in, keep the "true" format of jazz where improv and communication within your band is the main point, but contain the "styles and characteristics" of metal. IDK how that would sound especially since harmony becomes so muddy with distortion and it's hard to nail down the concept of a "form" when some of the best metal is "progressive", not to mention riff based vs chord based.

    Guthrie Govan is probably the closest person I've heard to be able to come close to doing that, especially in "Have a Blast".

    tl;dr- I'd like to either make or hear a jazz based metal instead of metal with jazz added And not just shredding, but chugs, thrashes, blasts, even vocals with screams and scat. The musicians would have to be top notch.


    Which brings me to my final point. I read a lot of people saying they like using jazz as the grease to increase their playing skill because it's so much easier to come back to metal and dominate. I agree. Being a jazz player for as long as I have, I find most metal to be direct, straightforward, and even some complex stuff is easy to get down the syncopation. There is some jazz I've worked through that I literally had to start it off at 1/4 tempo (bebop) and other stuff that I had to listen to one line for 30-40 min to get the syncopation lined up correctly (modern stuff).

    I really think your average jazz player could learn average metal in half the time it takes your average metal player to learn average jazz. No offense to you guys here that are metal players, I love the shit out of metal and there are a lot of great players. But there's no arguing that in terms of raw skill, it's much harder to get down a jazz song and make it really enjoyable to the community. I think most would agree or they wouldn't use jazz as that tool to up their playing. What jazz players do you see trying to practice metal that wouldn't fall under the jazz category already so they can improve their playing? Doesn't happen.

    final tl;dr- it's easier to go from jazz to metal than metal to jazz, take the meaning of that as you will

    Thanks for reading my silly rant.
     
  5. kekkuliheikki

    kekkuliheikki SS.org Regular

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    Brief.

    Jazz is a lifetime of study but IMMENSE help when playing other styles.

    Learn the blues first though...
     
  6. tristanroyster

    tristanroyster SS.org Regular

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    Jazz studies have helped my composition a lot. I'm a solid guitar player because of my dedication to and performances in jazz.
     
  7. Hallic

    Hallic Got T.I.N.G?

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  8. insanebassninja

    insanebassninja Banned

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    I play the blues and metal. Howevery I want to learn Jazz as well
     
  9. TylerEstes

    TylerEstes Sheeeeeeeit

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    I have a question for you guys. My only guitar is a 7 string with active pickups that I'll be using to play Carnifex type stuff on, but I'm also really really interested in learning how to play jazz, blues, and surf rock. What tuning would be the best all around for these? I'm okay with slightly changing the tuning, but I don't want to set up my guitar every time I change tunings since it has a Floyd Rose. I'm considering using drop A, but that's only with deathcore in mind. Is jazz feasible in drop A? That question is probably hilarious, but I'm still new to jazz. I'm only trying to make due until I can get a Strat or Gibson or Gretsch.
     
  10. InfinityCollision

    InfinityCollision SS.org Regular

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    George van Eps used drop tunings (A and later G) throughout his career. Many others have followed suit. You'll be in well-trod territory if you opt for drop-tuning :)
     
  11. lemniscate

    lemniscate Banned

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    [​IMG]
    Metal to jazz. Kenny G isn't releasing a brutal death metal album, anytime soon.
     
  12. SnowfaLL

    SnowfaLL SS.org Regular

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    but its very possible his son might.. He's even a poster here I believe..
     
  13. TylerEstes

    TylerEstes Sheeeeeeeit

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    That's good. I wasn't too sure as I haven't been into jazz that long. Any other jazz guitarists that down tune?
     
  14. SevenString

    SevenString RJ-D0 : Heavy Metal Droid

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    Drop A is very common for 7-string jazz players. With this tuning, voicings that use a fingered 5th (A) string as a "bass" note are easy to adapt to use 7th string instead.

    I play an 8, and when I play jazz, I tune to drop A and drop E for the 7th and 8th strings.
     
  15. DropDizzle

    DropDizzle SS.org Regular

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    I do the same. That way I can focus less on relearning my chord structures and just maintain the voicings I'm used to.
     
  16. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    ^^^ For those of who play in EAEADGBE for easy access to octave-below roots using standard jazz chord voicings: did any of you ever consider using something like the Boss OC-20G PolyOctave, which allows you to selectively drop the bottom strings an octave (using a GK pickup), with a standard 6-string?
     
  17. SevenString

    SevenString RJ-D0 : Heavy Metal Droid

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    Good idea for a 6 player, but since I've played ERGs for over 2 decades and am now very comfortable with 8s, that would solve a problem I don't actually have. ;)
     
  18. Eric Von Kimble

    Eric Von Kimble SS.org Regular

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    I play both but I started out the rock and metal. Went to school for Jazz and learned a lot of theory and standards, now I like to incorporate both in my music.

    Artists like Greg Howe or Frank Gambale may pique your interest
     
  19. InfinityCollision

    InfinityCollision SS.org Regular

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    That never occurred to me prior to discovering 7s, but I don't think I would have been satisfied with the results in any case. Just thinking it over, it seems like that would limit voicings (or at least voice leading) in ways I find undesirable.

    Out of curiosity, do you know of anyone doing that?
     
  20. algtrdom

    algtrdom SS.org Regular

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    I've used the Boss OC-3 for a long time for the purpose you were talking about. Its best feature is the range option, which allows you to set the register of the lowest octave, amazing. Bad part is...really bad tracking, tends to be very muddy and boomy.

    By the way, a while ago I posted a video of one of my bands and some of you enjoyed it. Here's something new, and I believe it shows how rock/metal can live with jazz/improvisation. Hope you dig it!


    'Jägala' live by ÖPIK-3 - YouTube
     

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