Do any of you jazz players play metal, or vice versa?

Discussion in 'Jazz, Acoustic, Classical & Fingerstyle' started by acriticalcookie, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. AugmentedFourth

    AugmentedFourth X:1 K:C [c^f]|

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    If AAL, Blotted Science, Cynic, and Cloudkicker count as metal, then yes. I listen to metal.

    Then again, I'm not really much of a jazz guitarist! I mostly just like jazz, know a bit of the theory, and like playing chord melodies on the ol' 8 string.
     
  2. JustMac

    JustMac ss not-so-regular

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    Should I see a doctor if I felt blood rushing to my hands as I got to the end of that? I didn't see the end of the message first so I'm sure that's....somewhat understandable :lol:

    I'm no theory wizz-kid or anything, but I am a huge fan of playing Wes Montgomery, Pat Martino and Jim Hall stuff (I'm a lot more of a bebop/hard-bop guy than fusion ala Holdsworth), and try to implement some of them ideas into metal environments in playing I guess.
     
  3. Triple-J

    Triple-J the Experimetalist

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    Recently I started playing jazz and went through a phase of buying books/dvds/etc about it but the more I learnt the more I found it translated into other forms of music namely rockabilly and country but the thing is that I'm now more interested in playing this weird dark rockabilly/country style I've developed so I've quit playing jazz but I'm still listening to it.
     
  4. Chuck

    Chuck SS.org Regular

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    Makes perfect sense with that DGD avatar! :lol:
     
  5. Eric Von Kimble

    Eric Von Kimble SS.org Regular

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    Oh yeah man I like to do both, Jazz Fusion
    Check out Allan Holdsworth, Greg Howe
    I love that sound

    Its lots of Jazz influence coupled with classical, their in the shed zone at the same damn time, lol.
     
  6. mr_ormus777

    mr_ormus777 Grey Alien

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    Just saw this,
    I studied Jazz and played in Jazz/Fusion bands in Sydney most of my younger days, I love the music of Allan Holdsworth, John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderly and a bunch of others but am more of a Fusion player using these guys as my inspiration, but on the other side, I also listen to and really dig Ever Forthright, AAL, Means End, and what originally got me into 8 string guitars: Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects (not sure if he used an 8 on that tho), I've only recently started using elements from Prog Metal in my tunes like displaced distorted lines on the lower strings but was already thinking along those lines a while back after hearing Steve Coleman and his M-Base stuff which was obviously more from a Jazz context. Before this I was just using the 8 string(and previously a 7) for just having a bigger range to solo with. But back to the question yes both!:scratch:
     
  7. AugmentedFourth

    AugmentedFourth X:1 K:C [c^f]|

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    +1 for M-Base, and the Special Defects!

    Steve Coleman blew me away the first time I listened to him.
    In fact, this was the tune I was introduced to:

    Fortitude and Chaos

    A lot of Coleman's stuff is free on his website. Definitely check it out for those that haven't already. :yesway:
     
  8. insanebassninja

    insanebassninja Banned

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    Playing blues and want to move to jazz now so I can play metal.
     
  9. hk_golgatha

    hk_golgatha has two first names

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    My district/area jazz band just started up (yeah, high school, woo). :lol:

    I love getting to read new jazz charts because they're all so different. They all have really odd chord changes that you have to adapt to. I can certainly say that jazz has made me a better player in metal and overall. It teaches you how to really improvise and write over lines that move in and out of keys, forcing you to really use all of the scales at your arsenal (Giant Steps, anyone?).

    Jazz has helped me develop not only my scalar playing but also my ear. Playingin that big band setting has helped me hear how harmonies and notes fit into the music and timbre and I can say that it has helped my metal playing a lot in ways I never could comprehend before.

    Plus, I honestly feel jazz is infinitely harder than metal. In its own ways, of course.
     
  10. algtrdom

    algtrdom SS.org Regular

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    Hey guys, I posted a video of my band a while back in this thread and just wanted to let you know, for those who enjoyed it, that the album came out today on Iluso Records.

    Here's a tune from the album: https://soundcloud.com/ilusorecords/opikbyopik3

    I hope you dig it.

    Thanks!
     
  11. metalmonster

    metalmonster SS.org Regular

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    I can tell that my few years times of playing more jazz and some world music made me a richer musician, and a much better teacher.

    Now i have a doom metal project and i realize how much jazz made me a better musician ... i mean, the music i now write is so much more mature and complex.
    I know, that's just uneasy to understand if i put it that way. Let's give an example :

    i found a lovely chord progression that relies heavily on II-III-VI then VII in C major scale, with a lot of chord "enrichments" (don't remember the english term for adding 9th or a 6th to a chord), then i wrote a bassline in ionian mode and all of a sudden everything got so "tied" by the bass, and all of a sudden.. bam, instant awesome. It's all creativity and simplicity, really. It's just that i know what i'm doing and i know what my options are when i play one chord followed by another.

    If music is a language, Jazz is poetry, and this poetry contains rules that are in the same time very good because they help you create great-sounding music and in the same time they're so flexible you can do all you want with them.

    That's why your options are very vast actually, and one might even try to "forget" about the "usual" rules of music just to create new ideas and i can't help but talk about victor wooten (search victor wooten WS in youtube) :

    (the following is not the exact words, but it happened this way more or less)

    Vic : Hey, give me the notes of *some minor scale*
    Dudes in the room : Yeah, they're *notes of this scale*
    Vic : Okay. Anthony, please play for us a chord progression ?
    *chords*
    *amazing solo. Me groovin' in front of my computer, mesmerized, kinda noticing some notes sound quite odd ... *
    Vic : okay, now let's play another solo
    *great solo, but overtechnical. But i don't notice anything wrong with the notes at all, but it leaves me puzzled : not that great from the 4-string god, but still his impeccable technique leaves me even more puzzled : this solo should sound great, but it does not ... *
    Vic : Okay guys, which solo did you prefer ?
    Dudes in the room : well, the first one.
    Vic : you'll be surprised to see that i only played it with the wrong notes. So you're music students and you like a solo played only with the wrong notes ? You can change your mind !
    Dudes : well, we still love the first solo better.

    That conversation is here to explain how important are, besides notes, the feel, the rhythm, the articulation ... (actually you have to watch the video. Every musician will benefit from it, Victor is such a cool guy, the video is 3hr long but it feels like a trip through heaven... hard to explain in words, let's just say it was enlightening and in the same time fascinating and fun ... it just made my heart smile and my mind dance. That's how i feel in front of great musicians doing what they love and sharing their passion).


    So basically, as a guitar teacher, every musician that meets my path gets introduced to jazz. Not that you-have-to-like-jazz-to-be-a-musician at all, but jazz is an important genre, you might as well take a listen. And a lot of what i teach actually comes from jazz but is "adapted" to other music genres. Because with jazz, you can explain metallica or radiohead. Why did those guys choses these notes? What makes that riff so AWESOME ? Though there is always magic.

    Because before i leave you (sorry if i sound like a priest right in the middle of a sermon lol), music is magic. It's all about the emotion, and that can't be translated in words ... it's just like any artist, if you have the tools, you can do a better job at transmitting them.

    ps : anyway, listen to John Petrucci, Tosin Abasi, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani just to name a few in very different genres from energetic rock (if that even exists) to metal that blew my mind a few months ago out of energy, feel, technicity, super-awesome gear (that matters, and liking great gear is a lot more normal than i once thought) : all these dudes rely heavily on jazz, and i often use their songs as a "bridge" from metal to jazz for my students.

    To me, this is jazz (but to me, almost every music is jazz to some extent, from cuban salsa to progressive metal).

    Besides, jazz is a very vast, and very rich musical genre. There is a jazz song for every one of us ... one that really is beyond words to me is "Reincarnation of a lovebird" played by Gil Evans and Steve Lacy. Just ... magic.

    Oh yeah \o/ such a fun song to play with.
     
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  12. loqtrall

    loqtrall Banned

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    I love mixing Jazz with the things my band and I write (all sorts of metal). It not only makes you a better musician in general, but it makes for absolutely fun and interesting song writing.
     
  13. metalmonster

    metalmonster SS.org Regular

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  14. SnowfaLL

    SnowfaLL SS.org Regular

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    I think people seem to confuse jazz with just music theory or using 7th chords.. But really, every type of music can use 7th chords, it doesn't mean it's jazz.

    Jazz = Improvising and Syncopation. Thats all it is. Using complex chords and changes is just a part of music theory; even classical music does that sometimes.

    If your song has neither improvising or syncopation, its not jazz haha.

    I dunno. I think people shouldn't worry about labeling things, and just realize its all music theory. Play/make whatever you are into.
     
  15. Suho

    Suho Guitar Guardian Contributor

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    I would add that the improvising is often based around a melodic theme. Yeah, I love improvising and always have, and I love to play instrumental music and try to come up with cool chord changes, but I don't delude myself into thinking that I am a jazz player. I also don't delude myself in to thinking that I am a metal player, either. :lol:

    I think you will always have people defining jazz differently. To some, you have to have a certain sound or play a certain way, and often some will take a traditionalist view of what jazz is. I think that this tends to ignore the progressive elements that made jazz different from the musical roots it sprang from, and the spirit of going outside the bounds of tradition. You can't worry too much how others define it, as long as you enjoy it.
     
  16. metalmonster

    metalmonster SS.org Regular

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    Guys, X-mas is already over, but i've got a lil' present for you all !
    https://www.coursera.org/course/improvisation

    Berklee's jazz improvisation course. Already went through it once, about to go through it for the second time. To do my homework in time and to revise a bit.

    If you're doing this thing as well, just PM me so i create a topic here about the course... cool idea, right ?

    By the way, of course, it's free, and you don't get in any trouble if you don't complete the course. Guy's very smart and talented, very good explanations, very interesting course and straightforward approach.

    Oh, and another enlightening video, victor wooten's workshop ! Really, really enligtening stuff. I recommend you take 3 hours off your day, and watch it.

    (argh, already mentioned victor's video in another post. Oh well ... it's good enough to be mentioned twice)
     
  17. fwd0120

    fwd0120 Bipedal Hominid

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    I'm a rock player that can do metal and jazz.

     
  18. thearistocat

    thearistocat SS.org Regular

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    That looks interesting... I'll definitely take a look into it. Thanks for the heads up!
     
  19. UV7BK4LIFE

    UV7BK4LIFE Schecter A7 addict

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    I'm a metal guitarist, and whenever I'm in a rut I grab a Jazz book. Works like a charm for rut-busting!
     
  20. metalmonster

    metalmonster SS.org Regular

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    Oh yeah, jazz is for me like WD-40 for metal.

    @thearistocrat : you're welcome ! send me a PM if you're watching the course on jazz improvisation on coursera, i'd love to have a buddy to talk about all these concepts and perhaps get a broader vision. And it's more fun. Same for the wooten video. I'd love some feedback on it, so it gives me food for thought, and help me broaden my horizons even more.

    @fwd0120 : nice tone you have there. And really nice playing, with a nice "wes" feel i'm diggin' a lot. Not only the thumb thing, but also i can hear it in your phrasing and articulation.
     

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