Designer stages African themed fashion show with no Black models.

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Solodini, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. Solodini

    Solodini MORE RESTS!

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  2. AxeHappy

    AxeHappy SS.org Regular

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    If he has previously used a diversity of races in his shows, I imagine he is trying to make some sort of artistic statement or some such bullocks?

    I don't know. I can't really get upset over a ....ing ugly ass fashion show.


    Plot twist:
    What if everyone cast was of African descent? Plenty of white people in Africa.

    (No, I don't think that is what actually happened)
     
  3. Alex Kenivel

    Alex Kenivel Psycho, dont engage

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    Well the designer doesn't seem racist to me. It looks like he's inspired by a culture. But he's also trying to rustle some feathers by using "European" models to wear his his designs. He definitely succeeded :yesway:
     
  4. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    It's art. Art often has to do with colors. Yes, we can identify race based on skin tone (usually), but lets not pretend that the color of one's skin has only to do with "race" and not just how your look. Does that make sense?
     
  5. Electric Wizard

    Electric Wizard Dignity

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    How is the idea of cultural appropriation itself not racist? Isn't this saying that people's skin color dictates what clothing is acceptable for them?
     
  6. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    I was so appalled by the vulgar attack to my eyesight by what the models were wearing that I failed to notice their skin color (sarcasm towards fashion).
     
  7. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    That was the worst 'fashion' I have ever seen, irrelevant to skin color.

    Honestly, it feels intentional though. I genuinely think they were trying to get people upset. In a way it's a rousing success because I would have never intentionally looked at those pictures otherwise. :lol:
     
  8. Solodini

    Solodini MORE RESTS!

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    Appropriation isn't itself based on race. You can appropriate from a culture which differs from your own but is of the same ethnicity. The cultures that this sort of style would come from happen to be black cultures, so profiting from their creativity without acknowledging them, just lumping a bunch of designs together without any mention of the cultures and any importance to that culture, is disrespectful, taking advantage for one's own profit.

    Pop stars wearing Kiss T-shirts and typically metal attire while existing completely separately from metal culture could be seen as a form of appropriation, but metalheads haven't been victims of colonialism for centuries and aren't continually being taken advantage of for it to be as serious an issue. Traditional 'uncivilised' (ugh) societies are continually taken advantage of by much of the world, for huge profits. Oil, diamonds, natural resources and now their culture.
     
  9. Electric Wizard

    Electric Wizard Dignity

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    Why is this story being manipulated to fit a black vs white narrative then? (Because it's good clickbait.) All the outrage is about white models. What about Wantanabe who is Japanese?

    At what point does inspiration stop and appropriation begin? Are people from other cultures allowed to be influenced by each other? Again, how does the idea of cultural appropriation not reinforce stereotypes? It seems to assign everyone with a list of what they can and cannot do.
     
  10. russmuller

    russmuller Cramblin' Contributor

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    I haven't read the article so I may be totally off base, but I don't really agree with you here. It was an African-themed fashion show... The whole point of the event seems to have been to highlight the fashion is inspired by African cultures and styles. In my opinion, the inspiration and drive to create these garments and put on a show is, in itself, a tribute to those cultures.

    Maybe it's because I've lived with white privilege my entire life and I'm just not tuned in to the perceptions of others, but I fail to see any meaningful difference in the skin color of the models. Now if they came out in blackface, THAT would be pretty clearly offensive. I'm going to bet that most of the people who are upset about this are not, in fact, Africans themselves. And how would the people who live in those cultures have benefited from black models participating in this show? When the people upset are not actual "victims," and their solution (to include black models) has no benefit to those "victims," I simply don't see the point of it. Again, I admit that I may be totally wrong. My inability to grasp something doesn't mean that there's nothing there.

    It's not my intention to derail the thread, but a huge part of American music in the 20th century comes from black culture. I don't think it's disrespectful for a white boy to play the blues, or sing R&B, or rap without any black members in their group. The music itself pays tribute to those influences regardless of cultural origin, and I think the same is true in any other art form (fashion included).

    Why is skin color important an important part of giving credit where it's due in fashion, but not in music? Does anyone accuse Justin Timberlake of disrespectfully profiting from black culture because there weren't any black guys in his boy band?
     
  11. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    I agree with you, but tons of people actually do accuse people like Eminem, Justin Timberlake, Macklemore, Stevie Ray Vaughan, even Elvis of appropriating cultures/music. I personally think it's bull..... :shrug:
     
  12. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    But if there's a sister from Detroit walking down the stage that would have made it OK then... :scratch:
     
  13. russmuller

    russmuller Cramblin' Contributor

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    Exactly where I was coming from when I said:

     
  14. Solodini

    Solodini MORE RESTS!

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    There's so much of various ethic cultures that only become mainstream when given the stamp of approval by a white person. Those who developed the cultural elements often don't make anywhere near the level of money that those who hijack it do, even when it picks up popularity. A colleague expressed a horrible view but one which is maybe wider spread beyond just him: he felt that having the clothes on black models may imply cheapness and poor manufacturing quality as the clothes might originate from a poor community. The fact that he feels this way as a sweeping statement about a culture he knows nothing about makes me sick, but I can't help but feel that others might feel likewise. People often imply the same about various cultural elements: they'll go to the whited up Chinese/Indian/Other culture restaurant rather than that which is more akin to the culture the food comes from. The white chef from a western country goes to this or that country and cooks their food without any real input from those who have spent 50 years making it. It's presented as though his clearance that these methods are sound is needed, and that we can't just trust what they've been doing for generations.

    The same happens with music, fashion, language, everything.
     
  15. zappatton2

    zappatton2 SS.org Regular

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    As a white heavy-metal fan, I suppose I can't really speak to cultural appropriation, or the black experience at all (especially in America), but stuff like this has always been weird to me. I grew up in a neighborhood where white families were the majority minority; essentially the largest of many minorities, but not quite 50% of the population (don't quiz me on the exact demographics, I'm mostly relying on memories and old school photos). It always struck me as weird when I was a kid that everybody in popular media was white (sure we had Eddie Murphy, Bill Cosby, Stevie Wonder, but for the most part, sea of white). Even in media today, leading roles in movies, and faces on billboards are overwhelmingly white. I makes no sense, considering current demographics.

    Is there a greater desire to see white faces up on the screen? Frankly, my number one "celebrity crush" is Shingai Shoniwa of the Noisettes, I'd sure rather see her face on a billboard than most of the typical "models". Of course, I'm not just talking about beauty standards, but contributions across visible media. Sure we could have Chris Tucker as a wisecracking cop, but I feel like if the lead for a movie like Interstellar was a black man, it would be considered groundbreaking, rather than just normal. I don't know, I'm far from an authority, but that seems weird, and maybe it's not active racism, but it does strike me as latent cultural exclusion. And I feel like things should have changed a lot more by now.
     
  16. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    ^in marketing, most people are making an appeal to the customer. Who is the customer? This is determined through market research, which might break down the market by race.
    The inference I make is this: white people buy more/different stuff than black people, so the faces of advertisements is white people.
    But I'm sure that if you start looking up ads/etc. for things where blacks make up a larger portion of the market than do whites, I'm sure advertising/media will reflect it.
     
  17. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    Well as far as science knows all humans are descented from Africa and therefore presumably all descendent of black people. According to the most widely accepted theories homo sapiens left Africa ~100000 years ago.

    So EVERYONE is descented from black people from Africa, so in a way we are all black inside :fawk:
     
  18. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    :lol: that is not how it works :lol:

    If human origin is in Africa, all we can say is that both blacks and whites are descendants of Africans. We've got just about 0 way to find out what color their skin was. At least that's my understanding. We could have been red with blue stripes like baboons, because lord knows we were probably looking pretty monkey-ish back then.
     
  19. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    I don't fully agree (did anyone ever on SSO?): The climate 100000 years ago was basicly the same as we have today, so you would also be pretty black back then if you lived in Africa which all humans did, you know due to pigment n' sun? Also no we were not monkey-ish. Homo Sapiens left Africa at that point, not some earlier monkey version called homo monkey, so they would be pretty similar to us today.
     
  20. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    People don't look how they used to. The average height in Europe during roman times was like 5 foot or something. And that was only 2000 years ago.

    Also, the climate in Africa was different. I'm pretty sure the Sahara desert wasn't there.

    Also, since skin pigment (like height) is one of those things that is constantly evolving in people, regardless of what point we decidedly "became" homo sapiens. It's not like ok guys, you ready?? starting tomorrow we're humans! did you pick your colors? You know after tomorrow you've gotta keep'em!
     

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