Delay on Rhythm Guitars?

Discussion in 'Recording Studio' started by Drew, Nov 23, 2005.

Do you prefer this rhythm sound with or without delay?

  1. Dry

    28 vote(s)
    70.0%
  2. Ambivalent/no opinion

    7 vote(s)
    17.5%
  3. Delayed

    5 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. Drew

    Drew <font color="#C35617"><b>Fear the Polo!</b></font>

    Messages:
    25,801
    Likes Received:
    1,600
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004

    Ok, as this came up in the "included FX on amps" thread...

    I'm a BIG fan of delay on rhythm guitars. It's something I picked up from Devin Townsend that I just love the sound of - it seems to add a bit of extra depth and gives you the sense that these huge walls of guitars are just crashing down around you. However, it seems like I'm pretty much the only one here who feels this way.

    So, I did a couple quick sound clips last night. Nothing amazing, a 30-seconds-to-prepare Fruity Loops drum loop, about the same amount of time aligning an AKG C1000S in front of my amp, two tracks of guitar panned about 50% left and right, and a direct-in bass with some of the treble rolled off an a little bit of compression (I was in a hurry and didn't grab my J-Station).

    The first clip is a riff recorded dry. I'll also point out I'm a horrible rhythm player, lol.

    The second is the same riff with a little bit of ping-pong delay with about 40% feedback panned our 100% to each side. I mixed this quickly last night, and in retrospect the delay needs to come down another decibel or so, and I need to tempo-synch it too. But it serves as a demonstration.

    So, thoughts? Not the greatest recording/mix you'll ever here, but do you prefer it dry? wet? No opinion? Does the delay bother you? Does the dry mix bother you? Does my sloppy riffing bother you? :lol:

    Let me know.
     
  2. Chris

    Chris metalguitarist.org

    Messages:
    18,861
    Likes Received:
    4,161
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    While the FX'd clip sounds a little bigger by itself, as soon as you add any kind of solo/lyrics/etc over it, it's going to get muddy real fast.

    Dry all the way.
     
  3. Scott

    Scott Aye.

    Messages:
    5,996
    Likes Received:
    383
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    I prefer it wet and dirty myself...



    ...Oh and i'm gonna have to go with the delayed clip, but there is a slight too much of it.
     
  4. Drew

    Drew <font color="#C35617"><b>Fear the Polo!</b></font>

    Messages:
    25,801
    Likes Received:
    1,600
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Bah. I'm going to have to add a solo and three part vocal harmonies before you guys will give me a straight answer, won't I? :fawk:

    Chris, in theory you're right. However, if you route the delays for your lead and rhythm tracks through seperate FX busses and EQ them to hit different spectrums, theoretically I think it's possible to get away with a delayed rhythm tone without having sheer sonic chaos on your hands. I'll have to do a proper full mix like this to see if I can pull it off, and that I'm NOT crazy, lol.
     
  5. Scott

    Scott Aye.

    Messages:
    5,996
    Likes Received:
    383
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Theoretically, yes. :agreed:
     
  6. eaeolian

    eaeolian <b><font color="red">The Church of SEVEN</font></b

    Messages:
    13,398
    Likes Received:
    759
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    I prefer dry - or, really, slightly 'verbed. As fast as we usually play, delay would make it mush, especially with the other instruments. I could possibly see delaying the rhythms of slower-paced music, but why not just double the track and 'verb 'em? Thick and crushing, but not washed-out...
     
  7. Chris

    Chris metalguitarist.org

    Messages:
    18,861
    Likes Received:
    4,161
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    I'm not right in theory bitch, I'm mothafuckin' right. :fawk: Unless you absolutely kick ass at mixing, stereo rhythm tracks with effects + effect-laden lead = mush! Mush I tell you! :lol:
     
  8. Drew

    Drew <font color="#C35617"><b>Fear the Polo!</b></font>

    Messages:
    25,801
    Likes Received:
    1,600
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    WWDTD, muthafucka', WWDTD! :fawk:

    Ok, ok, you're right, Devin Townsend does in fact kick ass at mixing and thus we're still in agreement... :noplease:

    I guess I'm just going to have to become a fuckin' mixing GOD if I wanna get that kind of a sound on a CD... :agreed:

    I also gotta kick this smiley habit. Lately it seems I'm completely incapable of finishing a sentence without one. Smileys - the new punctuation. Yikes.

    SCOTT - don't hold your breath bro, I sound like a cross between a drunken Kurt Cobain and Bob Dylan with a head cold. It ain't pretty bro, lol.
     
  9. Drew

    Drew <font color="#C35617"><b>Fear the Polo!</b></font>

    Messages:
    25,801
    Likes Received:
    1,600
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    What, you mean like in the, oh, clip I included above? :fawk:

    Sorry, couldn't resist the cheap shot. :)
     
  10. eaeolian

    eaeolian <b><font color="red">The Church of SEVEN</font></b

    Messages:
    13,398
    Likes Received:
    759
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Note my alternative - and superior - suggestion AFTER that comment. :fawk:
     
  11. smueske

    smueske New Member

    Messages:
    644
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    I definitely prefer the delayed version. For me, I think the key is to record the guitar dry and do any effects in the mix, which, if I'm not mistaken, you are doing. You have so much more control that way. And yes, the tap delays are cool because you can really fill out the spectrum that way.

    It really depends on what else is going to be in the mix. The more I've been recording the more I see that it's not so much what a few tracks are doing but where everything is in spatial relationship to each other. Some tracks should be dry so that they appear in the near field. The furthest back will be the sounds with reverb and the ones in between will be the tracks with delay and other effects (okay, it's more complicated than that once you start looking at the waveforms and such, but that's true in a general sense). As long as your other sounds don't compete distance-wise, you should be all right. What this means, though, is that once you add vocals, they'll probably need to be the sounds that are in the near-field mix. The bass, too, should be dry then, or a very light chorus.
     
  12. Hawksmoor

    Hawksmoor Wannabe Shredder

    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    51
    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    +1
     
  13. Drew

    Drew <font color="#C35617"><b>Fear the Polo!</b></font>

    Messages:
    25,801
    Likes Received:
    1,600
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Interesting perspective, and one that makes sense to me on an intuitive level. In fact, if I picture a lead guitar over this I'm hearing something fairly dry and middy - a touch of delay, but mixed back so as to not really call attention to itself, and with either little reverb or a fast decay.

    I like that way of looking at a mix. :agreed:
     
  14. Vince

    Vince <b><font color="#FFFFFF">Vince is X!!!</font></b>

    Messages:
    6,158
    Likes Received:
    680
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    I use a light 80-90 ms stereo delay on my live sound. It's back in the mix and it just adds some depth to my live guitar sound.

    Whenever I've recorded rhythm guitar sounds, a delay sound from the rig always gets in the way. It takes away tight percussive parts and can make them mushy. I've got some recent clips I could share to demonstrate. I'll post them the next time I'm at my home computer.
     
  15. The Dark Wolf

    The Dark Wolf <b><i><font color="Black">Canis lupis obscurus</fo

    Messages:
    17,582
    Likes Received:
    988
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    There's NO WAY delay would work with most of the rhythmic stuff I play. A lot more going on than a simplistic riff like this example, Drew. If it's just slow, heavy nu-metal-ish dirge, then by all means, you can get away with a little. But if it's something tight, precise, and intricate? No fuckin' way.

    The delayed track sounds good.

    The dry track sounds better.

    My opinion.

    (Your tone sounds pretty good, D. SCREAMS Mesa Mark/Nomad series, son! :lol: )
     
  16. VII

    VII A mindless idiot

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    i hear that when Messuggah play live the r guitar has delay added to it to take up for one guitar missing while it solos. how practicle is that.
     
  17. Hawksmoor

    Hawksmoor Wannabe Shredder

    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    51
    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    A technique known as artificial doubling. One single repeat is added 20-30ms after it is played.
     
  18. Naren

    Naren OldschoolGhettostyle

    Messages:
    19,861
    Likes Received:
    780
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    I think the delayed track sounds good, but not as good as the dry track. I generally think that delay doesn't sound very good on rhythm guitar. It sounds pretty slick on delayed guitar, but not rhythm. You pulled it off, so that it sounds good, but not as good as the dry track. Personally, most of my distorted rhythm guitar wouldn't sound good with delay. A lot of my clean rhythm guitar sounds good with delay; and all my clean and distorted lead sounds good with delay.

    I gotta agree with Chris, Vince, and Bob on this one.
     
  19. Chris

    Chris metalguitarist.org

    Messages:
    18,861
    Likes Received:
    4,161
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Very much so.
     
  20. Chris

    Chris metalguitarist.org

    Messages:
    18,861
    Likes Received:
    4,161
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    :agreed: Also very much so.
     

Share This Page