Defacing of monuments is apparently becoming more common.

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by KnightBrolaire, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire 8 string hoarder

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    Some are being removed by the cities themselves and not by protestors. Personally I don't think defacing statues dedicated to dead soldiers is conducive or that the statues are racist(particularly when there were black soldiers who fought for the confederacy). Are they from a more blatantly racist time frame, yes, but so is the Iwo Jima memorial. I can't wait til someone starts claiming that or the vietnam wall memorial are racist as well. This shit is getting out of hand imo.
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...lottesville/JU4qvhS8rTExjxxHVKRs1N/story.html
    https://www.facebook.com/44thNYSVI/photos/pcb.1085231261610834/1085229334944360/?type=3&theater
     
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  2. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    The statues are a part of our history, and they serve as a reminder of what was. And it's important for us to remember that history so we don't repeat it.

    But putting them on display so prominently tends to come across as promoting what they stood for, which was slavery (specifically race based slavery).

    As such, they should probably be moved to a museum or other dedicated area to preserve them as a history lesson, but without giving the impression of promoting slavery or racism.
     
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  3. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire 8 string hoarder

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    The problem is that this wasn't limited to civil war statues- they also defaced the christopher columbus monument in ohio and claimed it was a vestige of racism. I just feel like this is going to get way too out of hand and could easily escalate to an absurd level where they want to tear down Mt. Vernon or all the gravestones in Arlington since they also perpetuate racism or such.
     
  4. BenjaminW

    BenjaminW SS.org Regular

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    I'm starting to question now if all the protestors wanting statues that "promote racism" really know what the definition of racism means.
     
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  5. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire 8 string hoarder

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    well I would doubt it since they clearly don't understand what fascism is. They keep trying to change the connotation of fascism to just being right wing when historically it meant para-military groups that used violence to further their own political agenda/suppress other group and their opinions, along with a strong sense of nationalism/xenophobia and endorsement of totalitarianism. This is an op-ed about fascism/Trump (and how he's not really a fascist) by someone who was alive in italy during WWII: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/01/donald-trump-fascist/424449/
     
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  6. BenjaminW

    BenjaminW SS.org Regular

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    I did forget fascism in my reply. Regarding Trump being labeled a racist, I think it's dumb because like you said, the people calling him one don't understand what the definition means.
     
  7. AngstRiddenDreams

    AngstRiddenDreams Filthy Casual

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    Take down Columbus statues too.
     
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  8. SD83

    SD83 SS.org Regular

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    That is a bit of a general problem of the extreme left (these days ?). If you're part of the political right, they seem to think that means you are by definition a racist, if you are both right wing and a racist, it makes you a facist... and especially concerning facism, it seems no one really knows what it actually means because to everyone it means something different.
    As for the statues, I'd go with what tedtan said. But then again, and Columbus is a great example of that, there are a lot of statues all over the world for people who were heroes or such by the standards of their time, but judged by the rules and moral values of our day, they would be horrible criminals. Alexander the Great might have ordered tons of war crimes, should all his statues be taken down as well? Where to draw the line? What is a reminder of the past, and what promotes what we now came to see as false?
     
  9. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire 8 string hoarder

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    therein lies the problem. Robert E Lee was a general with the union and distinguished himself in the Mexican American War but because he fought for the south some liberals want to get rid of his statue. It makes no sense when the man himself freed his father in law's slave in 1862 and didn't really support slavery. I think the Christopher Columbus monument is the really telling one, because if they're willing to deface that, then what is safe? I think it's the start of a very slippery slope.
     
  10. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    Every change in paradigm in History is followed by a symbol cleansing... the real question is, which is the new and the old?... Fear is then the drive of most, on both sides, fear of what is to come (on the conservationist side) and fear of the old ways mistakes (from the revolution side)...
     
  11. BenjaminW

    BenjaminW SS.org Regular

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    I'm genuinely behind you all the way. I can't wait to see people on social media or on the news calling for the removal of the Pyramids, Mount Vernon, Monticello, Confederate graves at Gettysburg, and so on. All that the extreme left has done with calling for "monuments to slavery" be removed is mimic ISIS in a way, by removing "the inferior past" from existence because it doesn't fit their ideological whim.
     
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  12. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    The majority of those "monuments" are cheap molded statues that went up in the 1920's and 1930's thanks to the resurgence at that time of the KKK and other groups that supported their goals.

    WELL after anyone could pretend that the secession attempt was anything other than treason. The same southern states that REQUIRED the 3/5ths clause.

    It'd be like a group claiming to be "German patriots" putting up monuments to Hitler in the 1990's.
     
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  13. jaxadam

    jaxadam SS.org Regular

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    I think we ought to load them all up with high explosives and blow them up in place, just like ISIS is doing in Syria.
     
  14. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    Or. Or. Wait. Hear me out.

    We take a photo. And put it in a history book. With a note showing when the statue went up, and what group/groups funded it. And an explanation as to why it was removed.

    Like history books do. Teach history.

    I'm not ok pretending that confederate generals who fought to defend slavery should have their statues left up.

    They were losers who fought for a bad cause and lost.

    All I hear is "leave the participation trophy up because some people have nothing else to trace their ancestors to. Why should people feel bad that grandpa fought for the south?"

    'Cause grandpas team lost. Losers don't get trophies.
     
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  15. iamaom

    iamaom SS.org Regular

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    This is the main one for me. If it was a 100 year old statue hand carved out of marble I could see being mad at its destruction, but if you look up videos a lot of these "statues" crumple like aluminum foil once they hit the ground. They're tacky faux-statues. I also don't buy the heritage argument. I've seen people waving confederate flags in Michigan, the guy who drove over that woman was a native of Ohio. These states have nothing to do with "southern heritage", and if southern heritage is defending people who fought to break up the US and form a slave owning society then it is not needed in this country. People need to learn to be proud by making the future a better place, not clinging to some archaic culture that they feel some loose connection to because they feel "oppressed" by liberals.
     
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  16. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    History books are written and manipulated by the victors. They're meant to brainwash and dumb people down, because that's what public schools do. They "teach" via the Pavlovian dog training method for the most part, and the only good option is Montessori as far as I am concerned. Might not be for everyone, though, and think there should be other options as well, not just the one and only option we currently have in American schools.

    Anyways, I think we should have museums set up as a memorial that discusses the good, the bad, and the ugly of America's history. Open them up to schools so they can have field trips and there can be plaques that explain certain elements of whatever it is that pertains to that part of the exhibit.
     
  17. possumkiller

    possumkiller SS.org Regular

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    The problem is I just don't believe these people. They aren't sincere. They seem like a band of street thugs that care more about creating fear and destruction than they do about any of the issues they claim to represent. Everyone knows that politicians are never sincere to begin with. So what is really going on here? Is there some other shit going on behind the curtain they want to get our attention away from? Are these masked bandits just paid pawns charged with stirring fear and chaos to get the public to be alright with the government using lethal force on groups of protesters? There is just something extremely fishy to me about the whole thing.
     
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  18. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    In other words, "Thou doth protest too much."

    All of this chaos is to be used as pretext to JFK Trump Grassy Knoll style. But not only that, it's to justify it, whereas most people felt that JFK and RFK's assassinations were unjustified. They want a president they can murder at will, and the crowds will cheer, so that they can do so at any time they wish in the future.

    As to your question regarding them being paid, I think they are. Not all of them, but the ones organizing this shit. Some are just victims of being easily lead by the nose. And it's not to get people okay with using lethal force on groups of people and/or protesters; it's to get people okay with the government openly and blatantly using lethal force against politicians, particularly presidents.
     
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  19. possumkiller

    possumkiller SS.org Regular

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    Yeah I figured it was only a matter of time before Trump gets assassinated. He wasn't supposed to win to begin with. Nobody in Washington left or right wanted him in there meddling around in their game. It's the reason he won. People came out of the woodwork on election day and said they'd rather vote for fucking Mickey Mouse than another crook ass politician.
     
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  20. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Pretty much. We've already proven without a shadow of a doubt that the CIA can do whatever it wants, produce a bogus story with more holes than swiss cheese, and still get away with it. We're only a couple years before the CIA goes on TV and goes, "Yeah, so what? What the fuck are you peons gonna do about it?!" and the illustrious US media :barf: covers for them.
     

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