Decapitated accused of kidnapping?

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by HeavyMetal4Ever, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Nicki

    Nicki SS.org Regular

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    Potentially, yes, if the state attorney decided to press charges.

    The other potential impact is that if the person who accepted the bribe, then came forward, can be called by the defense as a witness and flat out ask them under oath if they accepted a bribe. If the witness doesn't purger themselves and admits that yes, they accepted the bribe, the defense can use that to discredit the witness and their individual allegation against the accused. If the witness knowingly denies the accusation and purgers themselves, and it if the defense can prove that the person accepted the bribe, then the witness now potentially faces 2 charges, purgery and accepting a bribe.

    In either scenario, the state attorney would almost be forced to press charges against the witness because it would look bad if the state chose not to pursue criminal charges against that person.

    Like I said, it's a trap.
     
  2. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    *perjure, you probably don't want to use that word for someone who pukes :D
     
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  3. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    EDIT: Whoops, didn't read the whole last two pages and now this site won't let you delete
     
  4. Nicki

    Nicki SS.org Regular

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    Mah bad.
     
  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Pretrial is now scheduled for the first of December, and the criminal trial is to start 18 Dec 2017. Annette Plese is set to preside over the trial. Each person is on a separate case number, but the trials are scheduled to be simultaneous.

    The court documents all seem to have been pulled from public access at this time, not sure why, but it seems to be an intentional act by the court, so I have no idea what happened at arraignment. Usually not much happens anyway, but I find it kind of weird either way.
     
  6. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Also, the judge has stated that the trial will almost certainly be delayed. Discussions of innocence or guilt aside, note that the Sixth Amendment of the US Constitution guarantees a right to a speedy trial, which is defined by law for accused felons as 60 days. The band, legally, should be petitioning for release at this point in time. While that doesn't mean that the charges are dismissed, but just that the legal system no longer can retain custody once the petition is reviewed. Keep in mind that every step of the way so far, the courts have already been behind schedule with the charges, the extradition, and the arraignment - and now trial is scheduled at the very end of the allowed window with the judge blatantly stating that it will certainly be postponed, and the court admitting that they are trying to bend the rules so that they can keep the accused in custody much longer than allowed. With the court cases being closed and reopened and the public records being expunged of these cases' existence (which may be in violation of the Freedom of Information Act, if the court continues to keep the records of charges and dates hidden from public view), this whole thing certainly looks very bad on the courts. And now with the police department stating that there was too little evidence to make the arrest and the nebulous statements about lack of any evidence at all and the prosecution's two main witnesses having documented history of providing false information to the police long before this incident, the whole think looks like a belligerent fuckup by the court system.

    Whether these guys are guilty or innocent, they should be allowed a fair trial under US law.
     
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  7. Nicki

    Nicki SS.org Regular

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    It's obvious the case has been mishandled from the get-go and I would argue that the band should pursue release. Don't get me wrong, the accusations shouldn't be dismissed because of it, but this case has gone from "There's no way it's true" to "Wow, it's looking like they're guilty" to "These circumstances seem questionable". I'm curious to know how thoroughly these accusations were investigated by the Spokane police department.

    Also (if I'm not mistaken) in rape cases, information surrounding the case is usually put under a publication ban in order to protect the identity of the victim.
     
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  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Obviously they are required not to release the name of the victim, but things like "how did the defendant plea?" "When is the next hearing scheduled?" or "What was the date of extradition?" is all public domain. If they made a blunder and accidentally released the name of one of the witnesses, the appropriate corrective action is to remove the offending document, not to bomb out the entire case. If they do make another mistake and bomb out the entire case file, creating a new case and keeping everything confidential is also another mistake, and so on and on the chain of mistakes goes, until the entire system is exposed.

    The law has 15 days to go from arrest to arraignment (+30 days for extradition) and 60 days from arraignment to trial, but the US Supreme Court has set precedents that any delays without reason are in breach of the 6th Amendment. These guys were arrested Sep 2, right? What mathematics could be used to get 15+30 <= 63 days?! And now with the trial scheduled to start 55 days after arraignment with a wink and a nod from the judge, flat out saying it'll be delayed and these men, accused but not convicted of any crime, will rot in jail in solitary confinement (and yes, that it a human rights issue) indefinitely.

    I guess the court is betting that no one cares about accused rapists, whether anything is proven or not, so it's perfectly fine to willfully trample all over their basic rights.

    So...what if it turns out that one or more of them are innocent? Well, by then, the courts bank on the fact that those let go will be relieved enough to not pursue it. But, sadly, this kind of treatment of jailed prisoners happens all of the time - it's a regular practice, and people do turn out to be innocent, quite regularly (as we already covered earlier in this thread), so:

    1. Change the laws to make it legal to lock people up without a trial.
    or
    2. Hold the people within the system accountable for obeying the law.
     
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  9. couverdure

    couverdure No Gear Day

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    Just here to let you guys know that Vogg is no longer listed in the artist roster on Ibanez's website.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I kinda find it funny that there are still people on the list who no longer play their guitars for now (like Angel Vivaldi, the dudes from Archspire, Jari Maenpaa, Justin from Saosin who's now in The Used, Ben Bruce and the other guy from Asking Alexandria who even got production sig models), but he got removed once the allegations happened.

    This is to be Ian Watkins levels of bad if things keep going on like this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  10. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    Is Watkins the new Hitler folks compare folks to?
     
  11. Nicki

    Nicki SS.org Regular

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    Are you kidding me? "Ian Watkins levels of bad"? That dude got off easy in the media for what he did. Compared to the level of media coverage Decapitated has received over this, Watkins was barely a fart in the wind.
     
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  12. iamaom

    iamaom SS.org Regular

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    Well social media coverage seems to be increasing every year, and given the fact that death metal is a very click-baity topic I guess you could say that Watkins got lucky and Decapitated are just victims of circumstance.
     
  13. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    They each got lucky, in their own way.
     
  14. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    There is a hearing scheduled in a few weeks to discuss the status of the case. I think that's unusual, but maybe it's an Oregon thing. Other than that, they swapped judges, so now Julie McKay is presiding over the trial, which is now scheduled over the holidays. Maybe I'm reading into this wrong, but it seems there is a chance that the defense is fighting this exactly how I mentioned. Speedy Trial laws are imposed at the federal level, so I don't see how Oregon can schedule a trial 55 days after arraignment and then public say that it'll be delayed a week a conspicuous wink and a nod without taking some serious flack.

    Looking at other Oregon felony cases, this time frame seems highly unusual to me as well. I can't imagine what angle the court is going for.
     
  15. cwhitey2

    cwhitey2 BlackendCrust Metal™

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    Yeah that does seem odd.

    It's almost like they don't have a case and are looking for something to pin on them by holding them as long as they can (I'm not saying they are guilty or innocent).

    This whole case has me scratching my head...I would not be surprised if everything eventually got thrown out of court.
     
  16. Genome

    Genome Wrex. Shepard.

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    Are you talking about just the US? As the Watkins story was front-page news in the UK.
     
  17. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Thought it was time for an update. Nothing earth-shattering.

    1. Peter Tägtgren has publicly defended Decapitated, but says also that he has no idea what actually happened. (http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/pe...-against-rape-allegation-i-think-its-a-setup/)

    Pretty silly, IMO, to defend the group when you admit you have no idea what they did or did not do. I mean, he's not saying to withold judgement until we know something, he's flat out saying they didn't do it. He also says he doesn't know any of the guys other than Vogg...pretty weird.

    2. The band's legal team, Friday, filed for a motion to compel. Basically, the trial is taking too long and the courts aren't coming up with anything, so they're doing this to get the ball rolling. The trial is now pushed back to start the 18th (the last day legally allowed for delays, according to the modern interpretations of the sixth amendment), but then after the first day of trial, there is an extended holiday recess scheduled, so that the trial will actually start 9 Jan, almost a month after the time limit to begin trial is expired. This is very obvious bullshit. If they are guilty or not, they deserve a fair trial on a timely basis. Getting the judge into a room to bang a gavel and say that the trial has begun, then immediately say the trial is on a very long recess is an obvious half-assed workaround, and it's deplorable. Everything to do with the band aside, this is proof that the legal system in the USA doesn't take justice seriously in any way.

    3. The prosecution is calling 15 witnesses to testify against the band. Fifteen. A dozen and three. That's not a ton, but that's certainly a lot more than I expected, based on what the defense has been stating publicly.

    4. Not counting the one-month delay, the trial is expected to take over a month. We will likely not hear anything about a verdict until February or March.
     
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  18. Uncreative123

    Uncreative123 SS.org Regular

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    Appreciate you keeping an eye on this and updating us. I was just thinking today how I hadn't heard anything regarding this in awhile.

    Are you currently in law school?
     
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  19. cwhitey2

    cwhitey2 BlackendCrust Metal™

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    No, he's just really smart :lol:
     
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  20. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    He's a physicist, if I'm not mistaken.
     
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