Decapitated accused of kidnapping?

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by HeavyMetal4Ever, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    What I should have said is that I hope Vogg ACTUALLY IS innocent of ALL charges -- including "looking the other way" which I agree is extremely punishable.

    I have to admit, I've had trouble listening to any of their material since this surfaced. I can't really enjoy it knowing that one of my favorite bands might have (and probably did) engaged in this BS. I just can't excuse rape. I can forgive murder before that, oddly enough.

    I guess my comment earlier was just to voice my small glimmer of hope that at least Vogg might not have been involved.
     
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  2. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    What I should have said is that I hope Vogg ACTUALLY IS innocent of ALL charges -- including "looking the other way" which I agree is extremely punishable.

    I have to admit, I've had trouble listening to any of their material since this surfaced. I can't really enjoy it knowing that one of my favorite bands might have (and probably did) engaged in this BS. I just can't excuse rape. I can forgive murder before that, oddly enough.

    I guess my comment earlier was just to voice my small glimmer of hope that at least Vogg might not have been involved.

    This whole situation just sucks.
     
  3. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Maybe I should go off to the unpopular opinion thread, but I still think murder is worse. Not that it's a competition on any level.
     
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  4. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    Murder is probably worse, if you want to put it on a scale. But I find that I can understand how someone could be driven to it in certain cases (in most cases not though). But I can't fathom how anyone could find themselves compelled to commit such a savage atrocity as rape on another individual. Especially when sex can be obtained con-sensually so easily. You'd think that these guys could get some as often as they'd like, consensually, on tour. Even if they are a death metal band.
     
  5. chopeth

    chopeth SS.org Regular

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    I don't have problems listening to Emperor (my black fav), Mayhem or Burzum just to name a few... Decapitated music is great regardless of what they have or haven't done.
     
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  6. Blytheryn

    Blytheryn Musical Adam West

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    Lostprophets on the other hand...
     
  7. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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  8. Imalwayscold

    Imalwayscold Is actually warm

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    Charged doesn't mean convicted though. Their time in court is still yet to happen.
     
  9. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Hmm, so the kidnapping case (#F01700015) is completely separate from the rape case (#F01700017). It looks like Vogg is the only one formally accused of kidnapping, and it looks like all four are formally accused of rape.

    The source of all of the court documents I found is going to go dark now, too, because there are motions that the district courts do not have proper jurisdiction to hear these cases, but the documents don't say who does. The Case #F01700017 documents have even been removed from the system as of this morning. The arraignment is supposed to be today. I still had seen nothing indicating that the other two had been transported to Spokane County, but maybe everyone was moved to another facility.
     
  10. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I suspect that this is much of why people come to the defense of the accused so easily. It's hard to imagine being compelled to actually assault someone, but it's much easier to imagine scenarios where grey-area situations are turned into rape accusations, or consent being taken away after-the-fact for petty/drama/revenge reasons, etc. I get the impression that dudes worry about how easily an otherwise innocent interaction can be turned against them- because it does come across as a legit risk, as far as I can tell. Anyone can just throw an accusation at you and ruin you super easily. Edit: Not saying that's what happening here, or anywhere, just thinking out loud about the potential thought process that leads to supporting the accused by default.

    Speak for yourself :lol:

    Legit though, for tons of people, it's not very easy at all.
     
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  11. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    There's a ton of harsh words flying around out there every direction in these cases.

    I think you and I are on the same page, and I think this has all been said, but maybe I should say it again:

    1. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to come forward with these sorts of allegations.
    2. Courage is a positive trait, but it does not imply other positive traits, nor does it imply negative traits.
    3. These guys are alleged rapists. That's super serious. Allegations do not mean guilt, but they certainly do not mean innocence, either. The courts will try to determine that. The alternative press might take a crack at "solving" the case as well, and it might do so with some sort of bias, informed or otherwise.
    4. These guys' careers are ruined, no matter the outcome of this.
    5. The two women involved in the allegations should do everything they can to remain anonymous. No matter the outcome of this, they could be in serious danger from all sorts of crazy people if their names are released to the public.
    6. No one should have to apologize for making any "if ... then" statements. Because these are open cases, there are a lot of very serious if's and a lot of very serious then's. That's the nature of open investigations and open court cases, and the band is well-known, so there's simply no way around thinking about "if ... then." I would urge everybody to try to think of this from both sides under multiple possible scenarios though, if everybody is wanting to comment on this.
     
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  12. Tech Wrath

    Tech Wrath SS.org Regular

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    Either way, Nihility is one of my favorite albums ever.
    Can't take a side with so little information right now as others have already stated.

    This whole situation is a shit show. /:
     
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  13. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    Oh, me too. But for some reason, this is affecting my ability to listen to Decapitated. I agree, the art should be separated from the artist, but this crime is more serious to me. Maybe it's because I have a daughter. When I think about what Varg did, it really sounds like he was provoked and was truly concerned about his life. I can understand why he did what he did even if I don't support it. I don't support most of his views either, but still enjoy his music.
     
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  14. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Agreed with everything you said- but as a side-note, I think lots of people do have the level of courage it would take to level a false accusation, and that the ability to ruin someone so easily can be a motivating factor. I don't think we've seen anything here that suggests any of that is relevant to this case, I mention it only as an "it's a scary thought that people have so much power over other peoples lives" kind of thing- and I mean that from both sides, since regardless of the motivations or who is actually guilty of something, someone's life is made worse one way or another. Very likely that the lives of all people involved are going to be worse going forward. (Which in itself is likely a good deterrent for false accusations - sounds like an easy way to ruin your own life at the same time.)

    I guess the tl;dr version: Regardless of who is found to be "innocent", there are no winners here. Either the accused are terrible people, or the accusers are terrible people, or maybe they're all terrible people, or there was a big misunderstanding (not likely), but in all cases, everyone's lives are worse for it.
     
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  15. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    Eh, maybe. There are scenarios where they bounce back whether it's true or especially if it's false. My odds on that happening will be in direct correlation with how many units the new Tim Labesis album sells.
     
  16. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    surely you would rather be released and charges dropped, than be charged?
    clearly the police have too much on them. Which likely means court could also be a forgone conclusion
     
  17. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Court is a little beyond that now, there was already a kidnapping arraignment and the first appearance is scheduled for 1:30 PM Pacific Time today.

    Now that the court is preparing to open, some documents are back online.

    All four of them are being held in Spokane: http://www.khq.com/story/36586909/j...tal-band-back-to-spokane-to-face-rape-charges

    It appears there is a new judge and an interpreter this time around.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  18. Ataraxia2320

    Ataraxia2320 SS.org Regular

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    Dude thank you so much for keeping us all up to date.
     
  19. BusinessMan

    BusinessMan SS.org Regular

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    I'm confused with that link you posted. In that article, it read that the woman herself reported being raped. I have read several other articles that state her friend phoned in the rape from the back of a police cruiser after being arrested for DUI. So which is it?
     
  20. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    The link I posted?

    The police report says the call to police about the rape was received just before 0200 hours (2 AM) on Sept 1. The police incident report (#1720173269) has some pretty minor inconsistencies in the testimonies of the two victims. The follow up on the report has other testimonies that contradict some of the non-major details of both of the two women's testimonies - nothing universally conclusive. We may find out more after 1:30 PM Pacific Time, but I don't think it'd be wise to expect much for at least a couple weeks. A lot of the wording of these police and court documents is confusing for me, and there is really scant information in them. Once some time has passed, the court tapes might be made available, hopefully with specific names redacted, but that could take weeks.
     

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