conspiracy theories / mystical creatures / urban legends...the thread!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by M3CHK1LLA, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Here's a can of worms for you all, if anyone wants to discuss:

    Where the hell did HIV come from? Such a serious disease. No record of it prior to 1959, then, by the 1980's, it was epidemic. There are tons of conspiracy theories about the origins of the virus: some think it was created in a laboratory, others think it doesn't even really exist. I think that whatever the case, something crazy must have started it. Colonialism in Africa predates the spread of the disease by centuries.
     
  2. sighval

    sighval SS.org Regular

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    From what I know, HIV is believed to be a mutated SIV virus, which is found in many different non-human primates (and estimated to be at least 30k years old). Viruses tend to mutate, just like about anything alive.
     
  3. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    I think we can thank Dr. Maurice Hilleman for SV40 and SIV. Which if that is the case, then perhaps cancer viruses are transmitted by blood or possibly even sexual intercourse. The italicized is solely a hypothesis on my part.
     
  4. crankyrayhanky

    crankyrayhanky SS.org Regular

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    ECLIPSE CONSPIRACY

    I'll sum up the videos shown below (they're only 5 minutes long)....
    Where is the accurate animation of this week's eclipse?
    The ones on mainstream either show
    • the moon orbiting the earth way too fast- the earth should rotate 27 times (days) for every moon orbit
    • the earth rotating in the wrong direction- this is everywhere including on the NASA channel





     
  5. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Yes.... However- Virii never jump species without some sort of event happening, though. I doubt someone was bit by a gorilla and survived, but somehow harbored SIV long enough for it to mutate into HIV. If HIV mutated from SIV into HIV outside of the human body, it would not likely be selective toward our species. We saw something similar with SARS jumping from cats to humans, all starting where a culture of people in China were eating raw cat lungs - so cat-influenza was able to enter the human body in large enough concentrations to mutate into a human pathogen.

    Maybe some people in Africa in the 50's started drinking gorilla blood or something.

    But if I am to believe that any disease in any animal can spontaneously mutate into some terrible deadly human disease, then every day Homo Sapiens isn't wiped out is a miracle.

    Well, that hypothesis has been tested and supported before, so I don't think that's too far from a fact at this point.
     
  6. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    HIV is believed to be a virus common to non-human primates in Africa that mutated and was subsequently transmitted to humans via the humans consuming those primates as a food source. From there, it spread prettily easily because no one knew to be on the look out for it.


    As for cancer, it is a case of wildly out of control cells growing too fast. Most cancer is not believed to be a result of viruses, but some are. HPV, the sexually transmitted disease, can cause throat cancer, cervical cancer, vaginal cancer, penile cancer and anal cancer. Hepatitis B and C can cause liver cancer. HIV can cause throat, mouth, lung, skin and anal cancer. Herpes can cause cancer, too.

    So yeah, there are several viruses that can be transmitted through blood and/or sexual activity that can result in cancer.
     
  7. crankyrayhanky

    crankyrayhanky SS.org Regular

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    Here is the NASA video- this Globe is rotating the wrong way?!
    https://eclipse2017.nasa.gov/animation-total-solar-eclipse-august-21-2017
     
  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    HIV =/= SIV, but, ostensibly HIV mutated out of SIV. SIV is a virus common to non-human primates (with different virii specific to each species, i.e. sooty mangabey SIV is exclusive to sooty mangabeys and does not infect bonobos). HIV is the human-specific version of SIV. There were only a few cases of HIV before 1980, and those were only confirmed to be HIV after 1980. No one knew HIV existed, then they knew it existed, and then it was epidemic. So, it's not like it was around for a long time and then we suddenly figured out what it was. It didn't exist, from what we can tell, until 1959, or maybe later. Eating some sort of primate might well have been the way it was transmitted, but I believe that even cooked infected meat would be very unlikely to transmit the disease. I think someone must have made blood-to-blood contact or else consumed some raw animal material, or maybe there is another explanation - it's actually highly unlikely that we'll ever know exactly how it happened.

    Lots of retrovirii can cause cancer. Cancer is a wide variety of things, but they all start with a malfunction of genetic code. Since a retrovirus goes into an organism's genetic code and starts screwing with it, it increases the risk of developing cancer, just like being exposed to a chemical or form of radiation capable of altering genetic code.
     
  9. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    According to Dr. Maurice Hilleman, it was the polio vaccines he was working on, sourced from monkeys, that spread SV40 and SIV. Whether that is the case or not is another thing.
     
  10. Petar Bogdanov

    Petar Bogdanov SS.org Regular

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    How is this for a conspiracy theory: Android phones have really hardcore planned obsolescence designed into them, via the following methods:

    1. Water resistance
    2. Deliberately limited availability of non-counterfeit batteries
    3. No way to reset the flash storage, which gets slower and slower over time
    4. Fragility via the war on bezels. Originally, phones used to break only if they fell on their face. Now every hit is on the face.
     
  11. crankyrayhanky

    crankyrayhanky SS.org Regular

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    I'm not sure if this is a conspiracy if everyone agrees, lol! Business practices for many products including phones- 2 year warranty= self destruct at 25 months
     
  12. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire tinkerer/aspiring builder/8 string hoarder

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    Microbiology was nonexistent for most of the 19th century and it was still in its infancy in the early 1950s. We were still trying to cure diseases that consistently killed/crippled like polio, tuberculosis, dysentery, etc. The germ theory didn't exist until the mid 1800s when Pasteur definitively showed bacterium being the cause of grape rot/spoiled milk. Hell, antibiotics were only just discovered in the 1940s.
    HIV mutates extremely quickly, it's part of why it's so difficult to deal with and come up with a definitive cure. The biggest issue is that the hiv virus makes lots of mistakes during replication and this leads to mutations while also making every method we've come up with less effective over time.

    A bit off topic but here's some interesting tidbits that I remember from my medical history classes:
    Ignasz Semmelweis (the first doctor to advocate handwashing regimens for doctors) was considered a laughingstock at the time of his theory (very late 1800s). His medical school students wouldn't was their hands after corpse dissections, then used those dirty hands to help deliver children. The infant and maternal mortality rate at his hospital (and other hospitals was through the roof) due to puerperal fever. By forcing the students to wash their hands the mortality rates decreased significantly, though that wasn't good enough for many hospitals to advocate handwashing. Hell the first real disinfectants used in western medicine were not discovered til the 1800s by Joseph lister, the namesake of listerine, fastest amputater in the west, and only surgeon with a 300% patient mortality rate. He figured out that spraying carbolic acid (phenol) onto his surgical tools to disinfect them (and also spraying the wound) prevented infection/necrosis.
     
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  13. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    300% mortality rate? Did you mean 30%?
     
  14. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire tinkerer/aspiring builder/8 string hoarder

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    Oh my bad, I mixed up Robert Lister and Robert Liston. liston killed 3 patients in one go and was the fastest hand in the west with an amputation saw, not Lister.
    http://www.historyofsurgery.co.uk/Web Pages/0413.htm
     
  15. Petar Bogdanov

    Petar Bogdanov SS.org Regular

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    The thing that defines a conspiracy, is the amount of conspiring going on, it has nothing with the amount of credible evidence. ;)
     
  16. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    quite blatantly a man made virus. Ive always thought as such. It also makes me wonder why certain things STILL have not been cured?. Is it because its genuinely impossible at this stage despite all the money, research and brilliant minds we have globally looking at it?. Or do they just not want it cured?

    Cancer for example and the conspiracy of "they" either intentionally somehow make people obtain this illness to being able to profit from it (trillions?), or have no part in people obtaining the illness but intentionally dont just cure it (like a jab for everyone to be immune) because of said profit.
     
  17. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Part of it has to do with the fact that researching for a cure is big business. Lots of money to be made in that, more so than the cure. If you endlessly research it because it's "incurable," you can make money for decades.

    They make money researching for a cure.
    They make money attempting to rid you of it [ie, chemo]
    They make money off of the debt [ie, interest]
    Then once they've emptied your wallet, you die.
     
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  18. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    modern life in a nutshell. How sad.
    The Matrix's concept is not exactly so far from the truth. We are born purely to be slaves to a system that we give our entire life and its money too, then we die and are replaced by the next generation of slaves.

    What a time to exist.... :(
     
  19. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    That reminds me: My DVD of The Matrix is missing the mandated disclaimer sticker about it being allegorical fiction.
     
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  20. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Microbiology, as the study of microorganisms, existed in antiquity (why we have beer), we just didn't know what microorganisms looked like until the mid 17th century, when the microscope was invented. The germ theory was proposed by Girolamo Fracastoro in 1546, well before the microscope existed. Viruses were discovered in the 19th century. Your time table doesn't really 100% mesh with my understanding of the history of medicine (I'm not a medical professional, unless you argue in the broadest terms). But I still think I see your point, because the gist of everything you said is indisputable: we really knew nothing about medicine until recent history. There may have been some folks out there way ahead of their time, but the larger medical community usually scoffed at those people. Still, though, even thought we didn't know how to treat polio or rabies or smallpox, etc., we still knew what they were. No one knew what HIV was until the 1980's, and then, looking at historical cases, those only went back as far as 1959, with doctors being baffled at what was, at that time, a totally new disease (as far as written documents).

    So, in one way, you are 100% correct, that we would have had no idea how to deal with HIV in the umpteenth century, but the fact remains that there is strong evidence that the disease is significantly newer than our understanding of diagnosis of diseases like it. That makes it seem like HIV just appeared one day, and then, not too long after, had infected a portion of the human population worldwide.

    If that doesn't make the perfect incubator for conspiracy theories, I don't know what does.
     

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