Can we immediately delete Sales with a Gift-Only requirement immediately?

Discussion in 'Feedback & Suggestions' started by ElRay, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    I know I'm one of Ye Olde Farts around here, so it might just be "build-up", but I think I've seen a few too many "I think I got Ripped Off" threads lately -- especially from longtime members with high feedback.

    Can we institute a ban on "PayPal Gift Only" FS's? If the buyer or seller want to negotiate that behind the scenes, let them, but if the seller is requiring the funds be gifted right off the top, then the FS thread should be deleted.

    Ray
     
    Chuck, Datura and Hollowway like this.
  2. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    I agree. I've actually included extra money and paid above the asking price just to get the PP protection in cases like that. Plus, I believe that one of the mods (DJP?) posted a guide to better selling stating to never pay by gift on PP. I think if someone wants to do gift only they can either just add the money in, or say "Paypal plus fees" in the same way people write "plus shipping."
     
  3. Mordacain

    Mordacain 1-watt brigadier

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    I dunno, I've trading here a long time now and I use Gift option a lot. Personally, I only use regular Paypal for more expensive stuff.

    I'd hate to see it lost as an option for low dollar (sub $200 IMO) stuff; it's one of the benefits of developing a good trader ethos here.

    Also, I'm not sure if it's great to put additional overhead on the mods; if they're cool with it, that's one thing but we have extensive rules in the marketplace and everyone that goes there should understand it's a "use at your own risk" venture.
     
  4. leonardo7

    leonardo7 Banned

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    You can file a paypal dispute within 45 days regardless of payment type. When you file a dispute, paypal contacts the person your in dispute with. If they don't respond at all or cant provide shipping info then it helps your case.
     
  5. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    Can you find documentation from PayPal where that's true? This pretty much goes in opposition to everything that's ever been said about PayPal Gifts.

    Ray
     
  6. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    There isn't really a way to police this, we can delete the thread in question, but what's stopping the same user from making an identical one without saying "PayPal Gift Only"? There's nothing stopping a buyer from throwing on the extra cash, and if a seller refuses after that, then chances are they're a scammer anyway.

    Myself, Mesh and other Mods have recommended folks not use PayPal Gift unless you have a long standing relationship with the sell, but that's all we can do.

    We, the Mods, can only do so much in cases like these. We don't have the power, or right, to dictate how someone spends their money. Folks need to make informed, adult decisions, and that also means living with the poor ones they make. I empathize with folks who get scammed and I'm always the first to try and sort these messes out, and deal out the only form of justice I can (perma-ban).

    I think folks need to start looking at the small fee associated with using PayPal as "Not getting screwed over insurance". :2c:

    What do I know though, I'm just a young'n? :shrug:
     
  7. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Yeah, that's what I've been doing when I add a fee on top. I'm just super leery of doing deals with people, irrespective of their history (probably given my spotty history with hiring shady luthiers!). At any rate, just a few minutes ago I read that one thread where the one member (I can't remember who) got screwed over by NegativeXero. Turns out Negative Xero didn't ask for PP gift, but the user paid it that way anyway, just to be nice. Which, unfortunately, looks to be a facepalm moment. So long story short, even if someone doesn't ask for PP gift, it looks like people might still pay that way.
     
  8. leonardo7

    leonardo7 Banned

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    I remember that when I was filing a dispute with S7G, Paypal escalated my case/dispute forward with total disregard for the fact that I paid as "gift". They never asked how I paid or brought it up.

    Paypal is the merchant. You aren't paying someone directly, your paying paypal and paypal is paying them. I do believe that paypal is always required to offer you some type of guarantee as the merchant, regardless of how you paid.

    Now how about this curveball. Its actually just as easy if not more easy to dispute a payment that was sent as a gift. Think about it, you sent the money as a gift. Its in your right to re claim it, within 45 days. Its more tricky to rightfully issue your payment back to you if there was a product or service involved. Its a very very tricky thing actually. Now lets look at it from the sellers point of view. As a seller it should be in your best interest to not accept gift if you look at it that way.

    Bottom line is know who your dealing with. Look at their rep and get a good feel for them, as a buyer and as a seller. If your sketched out about it then do it through paypal invoice, pay some minor fees and be protected, as mentioned by Max.
     
  9. Fred the Shred

    Fred the Shred Shrederick

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    And there's the other side of the coin as well, namely the fact of someone like me asking for the gift option due to the way PP likes to factor charges to a Portugal based account, yet I am still to not deliver anything, and most peeps don't exactly have long standing relationships with me to begin with.

    Needless to say, problem is that you can get utterly screwed if you aren't doing all the check work and fail to spot some signs of things going the wrong way in the seller / trader's behaviour. So far, never screwed anyone or got screwed myself, so here's hoping I keep on this track!
     
  10. MFB

    MFB ExBendable

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    Except that those are the easiest ones to rip people on because they're lower end guitars, generally people don't really care about the loss on them - especially if it was a project guitar. On HC, I was selling a broken guitar for $100 shipped since I had gotten it as a trade deal for cash + guitar in a trade, guitar was now worthless but the cash I had wasn't. So I'm contacted and dude can only pay $75 or something, so I ship it and he never sends the money.

    Oh well, it's like $30 I'm out of for shipping but I'm also rid of having to deal with re-listing and selling a broken guitar. Does it suck to have happen to any guitar? Yes. But would you rather it be under $200 or way over?
     
  11. thrsher

    thrsher \m/-_-\m/

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    at the end of the day, buyer making to choice of sending as a gift is waiving his right not that protection. if you dont know the risk associated with paypal gift option, you shouldnt be using it

    "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"
     
  12. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

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    As I said in my post, if folks want to take the chance to save a few bucks, let them, but have a policy that FS threads that start right-off with "PayPal Gift Only" get a trip to the bit bucket.

    Ray
     
  13. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    So delete them just so the original poster will make it again and exclude the "Paypal Gift Only" part, yet still possible (likely) accept it "behind the scenes"?

    How exactly is that going to stop folks from using PayPal Gift? :scratch:

    How about this, report me a dozen FS threads that explicitly state that PayPal gift is the only (not just an option, but the only option) made in the last 90 days. I'll delete them and we'll see what happens. Lets get experimental here.

    Feel free to link them here, instead of just reporting.
     
  14. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Yeah, it's a good starting place, but unfortunately, like they say on Wall Street, "past performance is not a guarantee of future results." There have been way too many cases where someone in good standing and with a good trade history all of a sudden goes belly up and disappears. My basic policy is that I will only use regular PP, and my payment source is my CC, not my bank acct (for added protection). I just feel like I can't trust anyone anymore. I really got freaked out when Adrock went AWOL with a bunch of people's money.
     

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