Birthright citizenship

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by russmuller, Aug 26, 2015.

  1. TonyFlyingSquirrel

    TonyFlyingSquirrel Cherokee Warrior

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    It's happened here before, it's bound to happen again. It's the "American" way, but not the Native American way.
     
  2. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    That's humanity. I doubt your ancestors were exempt.
     
  3. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    That's what every single society that has ever existed has done towards their enemy (including Native Americans towards other Native Americans of different tribes). Political/religious figures all throughout history have set out to make war, violence and crime against others more black and white than they really are. It'll never stop happening either considering how effective it is. I mean it definitely works. Look how many parts of the world treat people who are Muslim or the witch hunts of the medieval and colonial days or how people just assume if your Mexican your in the US illegally (or simply Hispanic and thus look similar to a Mexican for that matter). It's like catnip to people who choose not to think deeply about the issues at hand.
     
  4. Rev2010

    Rev2010 Contributor

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    Yeah, let's not even get into the way different tribes of American Indians warred with each other. I always have to shake my head when people try to act like their people's are exempt from human atrocities. On the fourth of July I had to comment on a friend's Facebook share about how we shouldn't celebrate due to the attroicites that occurred in occupying this land. While there's no denying what occurred and no pride in it I did point out that America is not at all alone in such things. All cultures have a history of heinousness. The Romans, the Germans, the Norwegians, the Africans, the Egyptians, etc. It's sad but true. It is in NO way just the "American" way. :noway:


    Rev.
     
  5. Rev2010

    Rev2010 Contributor

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    I agree, I think this is a driving factor, though no whites want to admit it, lest they sound racist.

    I haven't researched the numbers but I'd wager that the largest amount of wealthy people in this country are liberal.

    Oh so true. On the flipside, illegal Mexican immigration counts for something like 52%. Last I checked Canadian/European illegal immigration was less than 5%. Let's deal with facts over our emotions.


    Rev.
     
  6. tacotiklah

    tacotiklah I am Denko (´・ω・`)

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    Nah, our countries' wealthy leans mostly to the right. Mainly because the party politics favors taxing them less and making everyone else take up the slack, then blaming those on the lowest rung for collapsing under the weight of it all.
    In fairness, we have liberal wealthy peeps too and a majority of them piss me off as well. Namely because they'll champion rights for low income people without actually doing anything about it.


    Edit: Also in fairness, America's politics tend to be so far to the right of the rest of the developed world (with some exceptions, such as Russia and China) that being for anything other than merciless capitalism is considered extremely liberal.
     
  7. Rev2010

    Rev2010 Contributor

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    Do you sincerely believe that to be true? Can you explain why liberal companies like Apple exhibit the exact same traits? Every corporation and wealthy elite no matter liberal or conservative seem to want that. Liberal corporations/executives/politicians still game the system, they just do it in different ways.

    Agreed :agreed:


    Rev.
     
  8. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    What defines Apple as liberal aside from their products being popular with youthful people? Everything I've ever read about Apple is how cutthroat they are as a company. Companies championing positive social issue /= liberal. Someone for instance could very well be very conservative when it comes to money, business, taxes, etc. and still think gay rights, women rights, ending war, etc. are issues worth backing, if only because it will help their position in the marketplace (positive marketing).
     
  9. estabon37

    estabon37 Melodica Attack!

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    Sorry for the 'aside' here, but any age above zero leaves open the possibility that a person can be left stateless, which leaves them pretty severely un- or under-protected. If anybody requires the legal and social protection of a nation-state, it's children, as they're not capable of legally or socially defending themselves.

    This is what always made me uncomfortable about the Starship Troopers method of citizenship: by forcing inhabitants to 'earn' citizenship, you're most likely to exclude those that are least capable of earning the title, and therefore really likely to create or increase massive social and economic inequality.

    The deadshits that call themselves the Australian Government recently simplified the process of revoking Australian citizenship (because we apparently had that option, because we suck). Amongst the stringent criteria that might cost one their citizenship is the following:

    Holy shit. That looks scary. As the kind of guy that likes to highlight the massive inadequacies of our government, this seems like it's putting too much power in the hands of one guy, so I figured it's perfect ranting material. I bet there's even crazier stuff built into it...

    (from Can You Ever Lose Your Australian Citizenship Status?)

    Oh, so birthright citizenship actually protects two generations of people from the potential overreach of the one person that could effectively single-handedly destroy a person's life if they chose to.

    The amount of people that are abused and exploited on this planet as a result of their murky citizenship status is already too high. In a choice between (thousands of?) children being born during holidays to exploit a citizenship loophole and (millions of?) children being born without the most basic legal protection, I think we're better off just telling the exploiters they're ....ty human beings and moving on.
     
  10. asher

    asher So Did We

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    Apple's a terrible, terrible company in many respects, from bullying other companies (Amazon book publishing) to pioneering no-competition agreements that suppress worker wages (with pretty much everyone else in the Valley) to, well, Foxconn...
     
  11. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    I'm not sure that I agree. I'm in Texas and while I see a large number of Mexican and other Hispanic people with some liberal tendencies, a surprising number of them are very conservative in many ways and end up voting republican. For example, most Mexican men I've met are very anti gay rights, very macho and anti women's rights, very pro business and very pro gun rights. Also, most Mexicans I've met are very anti government handouts; they believe people should bust their butts working and look down on people taking welfare of any kind. I realize I'm painting with a very broad brush here, but these cultural beliefs lend many to vote conservative even if they may otherwise look like they'd vote liberal.


    I think you're probably right here simply because, statistically speaking, most wealthy individuals are self made, first generation new money.
     
  12. asher

    asher So Did We

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    That depends on how you define "wealthy".

    Because the very top is like, 95% inherited wealth. I'd imagine that extends quite a ways downwards.
     
  13. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    I've seen both sides in the Hispanic community. I think the main linking factor for specifically Mexicans to Democrats has more to do with positions on their race, nationality and immigration more so than beliefs or values though.
     
  14. TRENCHLORD

    TRENCHLORD Banned

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    :agreed:
    With guys like Trump scaring the hell out of them it's hard to see them ever changing sides as a whole.
     
  15. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    I'm not so sure. If you take a look at the 2015 Forbes list of richest people, quite a few are self made (Gates, Buffet, Ellison, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Page, et. al.). And if we shift the definition of wealth down to "millionaire" then it's even more likely to be self made wealth.
     
  16. tedtan

    tedtan SS.org Regular

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    Definitely. But I don't see Donald Trump getting that far in the grand scheme of things. He's popular now because people know his name and he knows how to manipulate media and topics to gain PR advantage. Someone like Jeb Bush would be a better choice for the republicans (especially if he weren't tainted by association with his brother). Regardless, I doubt we'll see a right wing hard liner as the GOP candidate, much less actually elected.
     
  17. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    It might seem very tin foil hat of me to say so but I'm sure that the people with the most most most wealth have all found ways to keep their names out of any lists, make it a point to hide their vast wealth
     
  18. John_Strychnine

    John_Strychnine I Was Once Groove.

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    Trying to sort this out now. My grandfather unfortunately died during Viatnam and is buried at the Golden Gate in San Francisco. My mum is 56 years old and we only just these past few months were able to locate the rest of his family thanks to more information coming about through records being put up through the internet.

    How much of a ball ache is it to go through the whole aquisition citizenship bull....?
     
  19. ArticulateMadness

    ArticulateMadness Madness Articulator.

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    My personal opinion:

    The 14th Amendment was intended to give the slaves and their descendents some time of legal rights within a very prejudiced and segregated country. And it still didn't do anything but put them on the hook for more exploitation of their labor and skills, and make them pay taxes. When you get right down to it, having "anchor babies" simply means providing more people you can tax when they get working age. Ever heard of FACTA? America is one of two countries in the WORLD where when you leave and said I'm done, you still on the hook for paying taxes in your absence. So you're taxed in the country you're in, and then America, and then taxed on the tax to the other country. All these "illegals" getting free benefits when they go home are going to get the bill - then America will confiscate their land. See in Mexico, you can't own land unless you're a citizen - UNLESS its lost in debt. With the extradition rules, nothing they can do about America's conquest to land grab.

    I have a friend in Italy. Dual citizen. Born in Abruzzo. Never stepped foot in America. Speaks no America English (speaks british English). Mother was from America. Father from there. Turns 25, and gets hit with a 12K tax bill from unpaid taxes since he started working at 16 from the US ofA. Bank accounts frozen. Assets frozen (he inhereted some land upon his nonno's death). How the hell is that right? He's grandfathered into citizenship from his mother. The US even has a SS number on him and EVERYTHING. He knew nothing about it. Now his life is hell.

    Trust when I tell you, that 14th Amendment is about keeping money coming in.
     

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