Berried Alive. I keep seeing this band on social media. Am I taking crazy pills?

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Quantumface, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. hmmmmmmm

    hmmmmmmm SS.org Regular

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    There was a thread about him but it got lost in the abyss. that's how life goes - people get their 15 minutes of fame or infamy and life continues
     
  2. ArtHam

    ArtHam SS.org Regular

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    Now I don't think Steffen is innocent in any way, but I believe the truth is in the middle somewhere. You say he attacked fellow musicianS. Who else did he attack?

    But your message seems somewhat ill-informed and very biased.

    1: bands don't pay royalties.
    2: I had a cover video from Akroasis songs removed too. They were removed by the label though, not the band. One of my friends works at a label and he says they do this because it deviates views from the videos they themselves post. Less views = less money. This mainly applies to styles where the biggest factor is instrumental prowess. The label gets an automatic notification because they original audio is in there and can instantly delete it.
    3: I call bullshit on the Akroasis thing. You can't really be upset by that. It's a MUSIC video! Tom was fired by then, something that has happened to no one in Obscura before by the way. This happens in tons of bands. A band member gets fired, band needs to make a music video, new guy mimes it. Who cares. The way they split getting Geldschlager in very probably wasn't an option. Music Videos are always fake.

    According to multiple sources around the band Tom had attempted to take credit for the things he wrote even wanting credit for songs to which he only added a guitar solo. He was allegedly hard to work with and antagonistic and was fired because of that. Steffen is pretty much the Dave Mustaine of the band and the new guy basically tried to out-alpha him, hence he was fired. Tough. Happens in any company. Try pulling some of the stuff Tom tried to do after he got fired in the real world when you get fired from your old job. I'd be sceptic if it wasn't for the fact that even Linus, one of the nicest guys ever, never wants anything to do with Tom again. I even went to a Nader Sadek show last year and the main guy who runs that band even said he'd never work with Tom again.

    It's also not true that no one is in contact with Steffen, there's pictures of him with Christian together from a few months ago.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  3. cip 123

    cip 123 SS.org Regular

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    @ArtHam But royalties were supposobly worked out when Tom left. Also bands do get royalties depending on if they are part of any international music groups and where they get played. It depends how it's handled by labels or bands as some bands are signed up to groups such as PRS out with their labels.

    Cover videos are actually illegal in a sense for them to be properly legal you need both the label and performers permission. Tom is the performer and I assume he thought he could post it due him writing the material for the band/label.

    It's more the context in which I bring up the music video, and the credit. I don't follow any updates on the story so don't know if Tom every got proper credits for Akrosis. But this entire thread is about Berried alive faking things, when the video posted in the OP, is never specifically called a playthrough. It is as much a music video as Akrosis is.



    I don't know both sides entirely and probably won't ever but most of it is explained here - http://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/201...d-geldschlagers-statement-on-obscura-dispute/

    There does seem like several key things Steffen lied about, such as fretless guitar performances not on the album etc.
     
  4. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    I will first say when I heard his take on this [video] I was completely blown away. It is still one of my favorite guitar things ever. Freaking unbelievable to me.

    I went out and pre ordered the Fool's Gold after I heard this and was extremely disappointed. I like brutal stuff and it is so far away from brutal. The solos are cool but the rest of that album eh. Not my thing at all and I pretty much stopped following.

    The guy is an amazing guitarist IMO, weather he can actually play the stuff or not idk and idc. Some of his innovations are awesome but I do not really like his music. His awesome youtube clips, hell yeah they are great but his album that I have is not good to me and the vocals are atrocious. If you see this Charles please stop singing.

    I noticed some "tricks" a while back but didn't really consider it a big deal. One of his video takes clearly did not match the audio. Can't recall exactly what it was to post up but there was no way it was possible.

    I figured it was just video editing error and not complete manipulation. These days with the internet and computers and all that it doesn't seem to matter much. I would never cheat an audience but people do it and see success from it so whatever.

    At least they are not straight stealing someone else's music.

    I used to hate it and totally see where the OP and others are coming from but eh....Like the one guy said hating and posting about it just helps them out.
     
  5. ArtHam

    ArtHam SS.org Regular

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    Maybe, but with the Akroasis video everyone knew what was up. Obscura didn't say the new guy played the guitars in the song either.

    Tom got the full credit. His name was in the artwork, he is credited as having played guitars on the record. There are fretless guitars on the record, but not every song and not all the time. He wrote parts of certain songs and those are in the booklet too. I don't know what they expected him to do. He got fired right after recording. He can be grateful he got the full credit at all. For example the HAARP machine album has Alex Rudinger all over the artwork and his name in there but he didn't play any drums on the album. Instead there's a small line saying 'drums performed by Craig Reynolds'.
    My problem with that heavy blog story is that it's all one sided. From the moment the story broke it didn't make any sense. You don't get fired from a band over nothing. He tried to put himself into the role of a victim, but there had to be a reason why he was fired, which he always omitted. So he faked 'full disclosure' but omitted anything that might've put him in a bad light.And when anybody asked him about it on this forum or on his Facebook he started slamming them and accusing them of being sent by Steffen. Rubbed me the wrong way from the get go.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  6. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    He's not even trying to pantomime those crazy sweeps. I mean, if I made something like that on the computer, and didn't go around touting it as virtuoso guitar playing, would anyone even bother listening to me? That's intended as an honest question.
     
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  7. BIG ND SWEATY

    BIG ND SWEATY Edgy

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    I definitely think people would, myself being one of them. I'm a bit of an outlier though since I don't give a rats ass about "artistic integrity" of any kind as long as you're not note for note ripping off another band. I don't care how the music is recorded or written, if its good and I can groove to it why would I even care how the artist came up with it? Anup Sastry comes up with some of the wackiest sounding grooves and all of the guitars on his albums are programmed just like an EDM song, the drums are played by him though. This "true musician/artist" mentality is archaic and shouldn't dictate whether you like a song/band or not.

    It might seem like I'm riding some berry-dick in this thread but I actually don't even like Berried Alive. He can come up with some really cool sounding parts but he can't write a memorable song to save his life:lol:. I don't think I've ever seen him tout himself as some insane virtuoso guitarist either. Its more like "Heres a cool little thing I made, check it out" rather than jerking himself off about how awesome he is at guitar.
     
  8. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    Honestly, I don't even follow your question haha. I will do my best.

    I have no idea how I first heard Berried Alive. I'm pretty sure i saw them all over FB and was like WTF is this crap stealing Buried Alive's band name. Then I saw some killer guitar work.

    I just click on random stuff a lot of the time when I listen to new to me music. I do listen to a lot of stuff that I have not heard before so I guess for me to listen to someone they would just need good advertising where it was convenient to see like on a youtube suggested video type of thing.
     
  9. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    So I read a few more pages (one day i may read them all) haha.

    Is there any evidence that all of this is "fake" and that he cannot play this stuff? I do not believe that is the case here. Editing guitar tracks for a perfect take and programming guitars are different things.
     
  10. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Of course not, because it is impossible to prove a negative.

    Any time you hear MIDI, synth, or whatever, and someone pantomimes a guitar playthrough, I think some people, myself included, cringe a little bit, because it's showing you one thing, but your ears are telling you that something completely different is happening. It's not like someone is playing a Roland Synth guitar or anything like that, either, it's the visual presentation of "I'm playing a guitar" and the aural presentation that sounds like "here's a cool MIDI file I programmed." Probably whether it's dishonest in some way or not is dependent on interpreting queues, but it's something that, socially, many people feel is blatant.

    I mean, did Fab and Rob from Milli Vanilli ever explicitly say that they sang the songs? It doesn't matter, because they behaved very strongly as if they did, and their only purpose for existing, really, in the context into which they were placed, heavily implied that they were singing. Same goes for the guitar being held and mimed in a MIDI playback playthrough whatever.

    You can defend these sorts of videos by saying "it sounds cool, so who cares how it was recorded?" Which I can shrug in non-disagreement, but once you pick up a guitar and mime out a playthrough, it's very strongly implying that you are playing guitar. You know? So, what's the point in that other than to say "I play this on guitar?!" Just because it looks cool?! That doesn't really add up.

    For me, it's a sliding scale. If I hear a programmed song, I can dig it. If there is a programmed song I dig, and there's clearly no guitar in it, but I see a video and someone is holding a guitar in the background, pretending to play something, I might smirk a little at the thought that someone decided it'd be a cool aesthetic, and probably didn't really understand that there was no guitar in the song. The more obvious the guitar is, the tackier it gets, to the point where you have a closeup of a guitar being played and you are hearing programmed sounds that don't even really sound like guitar (in some cases, not in this particular case in the OP). The OP is somewhere on that sliding scale, but definitely more on the "I'm playing this on a guitar, check out my guitar playing" level than a "here is a cool song, and here is a guitar in the video because it looks cool" level.

    At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter, though. This is 2018, where tons of people are buzzing about videos with auto-tuned rubber chickens and rapping that is so ludicrously sped up, and most people think it's all about performing talent and miss the fact that it's really just a ton of creative talent and the rest is smoke and mirrors... but then again - it's really always been smoke and mirrors in pop and rock music anyway.
     
  11. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    So Charles Caswell is the Milli Vanilli of Modern Guitar :p
     
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  12. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    When your editing guitar tracks down to the 32nd note, you are essentially programming them. How is that different that someone editing in the piano roll in MIDI other than they had to take the time to make up each sample?
     
  13. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    How do you know exactly how much he's edited?

    The guy is a monster player, maybe not the best composer but I don't doubt he can play the music he's posted.

    Maybe I missed the post showing the evidence idk.

    I'm sure it's been done but I can't imagine anyone editing 32nd notes. That's absolutely ridiculous, maybe cutting bars in half at most. Anything more than that you could learn to play the song in the amount of time that would take.
     
  14. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger

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    Record one semi quaver note and copy paste it 10 times or record that one note, sample it and trigger it 10 times by midi. Its the same result. There's zero note bleed and everything is perfect on the grid in time the perfect length so people will call it midi guitars because thats the sound you get when you trigger guitars by midi. The evidence is in the sound, guitars don't sound like that, ever but midi does and its a textbook approach to recording guitars across the modern metal scene. Yes its exhausting but so is spending endless hours tweaking fine parts of a mix, its all part of being a musician I guess and if a surgically precise recording is your vision then you are going to put in that time. He also admitted it when called out so there is that.

    I refused to believe it at first that people would record guitars like that, grew up on Vai and Shawn Lane live videos which showed anything was possible on a guitar but looking back at 1:08 onwards in this video its painfully obvious thats separate notes stuck together so it sounds like guitar pro:


    Again nothing wrong with doing this on albums, personally I love the sound of really clear guitars, and the players skill is irrelevant as Necrophagist proves but just be able to play it live and don't make videos boasting about your guitar skills miming to super edited tracks on IG.
     
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  15. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    Did you listen to it?
    Every single note is exactly on a drum hit/beat division. E X A C T L Y
    Not to mention the number of times there is pick attack on tapping/legato parts.
    If you record with with intention of "micro-editing" it's not really that time consuming of a process. Record DI, Transient Split DI Track, Snap to Grid, Re-Amp. Or record each note of a pattern, crop to desired note length, snap to grid, copy/paste as desired. Takes about as long as meticulously comping several takes or re-recording a hundred times till you get one that's EXACTLY on the beat. I have no doubt this guy can play literal circles around me, but the evidence is in the audio that most of this stuff is edited to death.
     
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  16. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I suppose it's one of those things, like when I go to a restaurant with someone who has culinary training, and I make a comment about how great the dessert is and the culinary person tells me it's just a boxed cake mix or something store-bought. :shrug: Like, what do I care? Well, I might not care, because I'm pleased with the end result, but culinary people care about those sorts of things because of the amount of praise that goes to the kitchen staff...

    So, in the cases of many, if not most, progressive metal facebook-only bands and artists, when I, as a guitarist, listen to the music, it is so obvious that it's not real guitar playing, drumming, or bass playing, or when I listen to someone playing a rubber chicken on a youtube vid, how obvious it is to me, as someone with a little bit of production experience, that the chicken is autotuned snapped to a midi file, or whatever music-related shenanigans there is out there that is oh so obvious to me, yet not to everyone. The devil is always in the details. Pick attacks when you don't see pick attacks, sweeps when you don't see pick movement, all notes 100% isolated from each other with no ringing out, or sometimes notes that ring out over other notes that are no longer being played nor held...all of these things individually whisper fake, but scream fake when you sum them all together.
     
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  17. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Doc McStuffins Contributor

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    So I though he made the THM playthroughs to show that he was working hard and able to finally play his own stuff, no?
     
  18. QuantumCybin

    QuantumCybin Lost In Thought

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    This thread and the HAARP thread need to be merged into a megathread about the ethics/philosophy of hyper editing guitar tracks :lol: can’t tell which thread is which anymore just by reading them
     
  19. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Meh, this thread will be forgotten in a few weeks, probably. The HAARP Machine thread will keep going, because the project is so much more high profile and they seem to have a very rigid following. There have been a handful of threads about youtube/myspace/facebook guitar players who fake it already, and none of those are active except this one. Those could be merged into one thread, but no one would likely notice whether it was merged or not. :shrug: Plus, it'll only be a few months or so before another thread just like this, but with a slightly different guitarist on a different social media platform comes along.
     
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  20. QuantumCybin

    QuantumCybin Lost In Thought

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    True....flavor of the month type situation here.
     

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