Behemoth Cover! Guitar & Bass

Discussion in 'Recording Studio' started by Sumsar, May 17, 2018.

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  1. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    Hi all, so I did another cover, check it out:



    I used my Jackson Chris Broderick 7 Pro with Black Winters and a Warwick $$ 5 string Corvette which sounds pretty killer.

    I am pretty satisfied with the mix. I really wanted the bass to be present and audiable, and though it is hard to balance with the guitars I am pretty happy with the result.

    I also spend a fair amount of time reamping through my 6505 and into my Captor loadbox and then going through a looooot of different IRs and IR combinations. I ended up with some that I got with the Captor - a mesa miced with an sm57 and an engl with a 421.

    I also messed around a lot with color correction, and some of it came out better than other parts. Also getting used to DaVinci Resolve, but couldn't figure out how to apply the same color correction to multiple similar shots, so that is why the colors change a fair bit throughout the video :lol:

    Anyway, give my your thoughts and your criticism, I want to improve!
     
  2. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    No offense, but the second guitar was like the audio mixing equivalent of a man with a stovepipe hat sitting in front of me at the movies, at least through my own speakers. Maybe it's just my setup, but any time that track was doing anything, I was having a tough time hearing the other instruments over it.
     
  3. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    ^ Strange I actually thought I had put the guitars low enough in the mix as to not cover other parts of the mix, but maybe I need to check on something else than my main speakers. Let me take a listen and maybe I will correct it and put up another version - thanks for pointing it out :)
     
  4. Stijnson

    Stijnson SS.org Regular

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    Guitars are a bit loud yes, also their inherent fizzyness from the tone covers some stuff up. But they can come down in volume a little at least, and I would probably have picked an IR which sounds fuller. Sometimes it sounds like there is no IR on them at all. Also some low mid honkyness going on in them. Overal, mix wise, I would say it needs work, depending on what your going for. The drums have no punch whatsoever, are way to low in the mix, but tonewise sound good. The bass could use some grit (or a lot could be really cool too) to gel with the guitars and the drums better, as is, it sounds like guitars on top of everything else. Solo guitars are also too loud. Sorry if this sounds harsh, I'm writing as I'm listening, and I only mean it constructively :p
    Then again, considering the style, this might be what you are going for. Because this style doesn't necessarily require huge punchy drums and a driving low end.
     
  5. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    Tough crowd lol
    Well I am gonna take it down (make it private so that people can still comment here) and do some more work on the mix then. Thanks for the feedback.
    Stylistically I was basicly trying to get in the ballpark of the original song.
    Regarding guitar tones I tend to like IRs with conderser mics, since they sound a lot fuller, but I wanted to try to get a sound around dynamic mics so I tried it out .. apparently it didn't work that well.

    For drums I am not going for 'in your face / rimshot to death' style drums, but more of a background holding the groove and sounding good approach.

    The bass could probably do with some more grit, but for me that always tend to end up very fuzzy/fizzy, any recommendations on how to add more grit? Right now It is just running through a sansamp plugin that adds some drive in parallel on the high end - the lowend is clean DI and then it all goes through a bass cab IR.

    Original for reference:
     
  6. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    I can hear everything fine even on my laptop speaker, it sounds pretty good to me - but the main guitar is a tad loud. Nothing insane though personally especially considering it's a guitar focussed cover. I'd probably just turn main guitars down about 4dB.
    Good cover!
     
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  7. Stijnson

    Stijnson SS.org Regular

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    Like I said, it might have sounded negative, but I personally meant it constructive. I do think the cover is played perfectly and overall the tones are there!
    I had not actually listened to the original, but now that I have it is actually much better produced and mixed than I expected. The drums do have more punch than in yours, especially the kick. And as you can hear in the original mix, the bass (and low end in general) is also much bigger sounding, while the guitars are essentially an extension of the bass. Leads in it are quite reverb heavy, so they stay in the back a little. As for achieving this, on the drums I'd try some parallel compression on the shells if you haven't already, and if you have you could turn the par. comp up in that case. As for the bass, you're on the right track by splitting it. I tend to use the DI for low end only, and limit it a little. I have gone for some slight grit from like a sansamp aswell, although you want the low end to essentially be clean. The high end track (you can HP this anywhere from 250hz to 800hz really) I usually put a guitar amp sim on, and then a cab simulator, on which I have a bass cab IR. On the bass bus I'll either compress it a little more with like an 1176, or limit it slightly again. Boost some 1,5khz, possibly a low shelf for extra low end, and if you have some form of harmonic enhancer like Rbass, these do wonders for smaller speakers. As a result of this, your guitars will also sound fuller. They sound slightly small now, because they are loud, and the bass doesn't really push them. Hope it helps man! I'll gladly check out an updated version, or help you in any other way if you need it :)
     
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  8. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    Thanks for the feedback, I asked for constructive criticism and I appreciate it fully :)
    I do already have parallel compression on the drums, but maybe I need to have it louder in the mix. I might also have a bit too much plate reverb on the drums?
    Regarding parallel compression, what attack and release settings should I go for? Right now I think I have fast / fast, but that might not be the best way to go about it.
    And about the original I totally love the mix on that entire album, which is also why I did this cover to see if I could get somewhere in the ballpack.
    The mix is also hard because the song starts out fairly low-key hard-rock but ends in fast blastbeats and the mix has to work for both.

    It is friday, so I am going out for a few beers in a moment, but hopefully I can put up a new version tomorrow :)
     
  9. Stijnson

    Stijnson SS.org Regular

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    For parallel compression you do want a fast attack and release, yes. But fast really depends on which compressor your using to. But a CLA76, API2500 or like an SSL, even just a stock one will do the trick. The release I have the fastest possible, then the attack fast too, but I still want the transient to come through too. As for mixing 2 totally different sounding sections like you mentioned, usually automating an eq or maybe a multiband compressor during the faster kick parts will help a lot. Dipping the bass during fast sections can also help a lot with clarity. This way you can get plenty of low end from the kick and bass, but still be able to control it during the faster parts. Hope it helps man!
     
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  10. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    So here is my mix revision so far:



    I have put a lot more parallel compression on the shells, lowered the guitars and added a good amount of grit for the bass between 600 - 4000 Hertz as well as adjusted the bass EQ. For the guitars I also added a condensor mic IR with the dynamic mic IRs to make it sound a bit more full and not quite as scooped.
    The lead guitars also got some reverb, previously they only had delay and then lowered them some more in volume.
    My main concern is if I have the bass to loud in the mix now, but I think it works pretty well overall.

    Looking forwards to you guys thoughts on this version :)
     
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  11. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    Just realized that I had set the video as private, so nobody else could see it, should be fixed now.
     
  12. Stijnson

    Stijnson SS.org Regular

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    Sounds much fuller now for sure! The section at around 1:43 sounds much heavier now for example. Bass is a tad loud now though. Especially in the sections where it is very easy to hear, as only 1 guitar is playing for example. Maybe use some volume automation to lower it in those parts. Drums sound more punchy, but I feel like they need more fullness and low end, the toms especially are all transient and have no sustain or low end. Kick needs a low end boost too. Just blending in a nice full sounding kick sample will probably do wonders too. Guitars sound much better and fuller now, and overall I think you improved your mix! Nice work man!
     
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  13. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    Thanks a lot, I am also very pleased with where it ended up. I am not gonna do more revisions, but rather take what I have learned on to the next project.
    Regarding drums I am using the VST MT PowerDrumkit, which is freeware and already fairly premixed, so there is only so much you can do to them - I might end up getting something like superior drummer where you can mix it from the beginning and have some more freedom that way.

    Thanks, for helping me make this a better mix :)
     
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  14. Stijnson

    Stijnson SS.org Regular

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    No problem man! Check out GGD drums for a cheaper alternative to SD, but that sounds equally great!
     
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  15. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    For me, on my speakers, that mix was a lot better.

    This is by no means good advice, since I don't know what I'm doing, but here's what I would do if it were my mix:

    1. Add a little more thump into the kick. The kick sounds a little bit clicky, which works pretty well, but, just as a personal taste thing, I like just a little more oomph. I think the drums could sound a little more "real" with the right EQ.
    2. I know it's a guitar-centric mix, but, personally, I'd still take "guitar 2" down just a little bit - not much, but it still dominates the mix, to my ears, through my speakers.
    3. The other guitar part (leads and the intro/interlude) probably needs to come up just a touch.
    4. The bass sounds pretty great! I wouldn't touch it.
    5. Maybe try doubling the guitar 2 part so it sounds a little bit chunkier. Use a different IR/amp/simulator/EQ to get a little more texture.

    Or, disregard the above, because it sounds quite good the way it is.
     
  16. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    Disclaimers are always good :lol:

    For points 1 - 3 I totally agree, however as stated earlier I am not going to do more with this mix

    4: Yeah I also really enjoy where I got it to, for future projects I will try and use the same kind of approach and sound, however I don't know if this bass sound will work for tracks where the original is much less bass-centric.

    5: I am still learning more and more about guitar tones. Actually I have in the last day or two come to the opposite conclusion: just use one IR instead of mixing 3 different ones (as I did with this). It gives the sound more focus and it becomes easier to boost the good bits and cut the bad things in such a tone - with 3 IRs the entire spectrum can sound a mix of good and bad and it is a lot harder to make the right decision when mixing and choosing amp settings.

    Again thanks for the feedback, I really appriciate it, I want to become better at this :)
     
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  17. lemeker

    lemeker SS.org Slacker

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    Cool cover, better than I could do. I agree a lot with Bostjan , although I think the bass is a little loud. Still, sounds killer, and much better than I could do.
     
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