Assassinations: JFK/RFK/LHO, etc.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Spaced Out Ace, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    476
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    So between this, possibly being behind pedophile busts that will inevitably expose some rather prestigious people, and in general being a thorn in the government's side, Trump may just be in the same filing cabinet as JF/RF/MLK when all is said and done.
     
    DudeManBrother likes this.
  2. crankyrayhanky

    crankyrayhanky SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    71
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Location:
    Mesa, AZ
    Let’s not party yet
    Sources indicate that this release won’t change much of the original findings
     
  3. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    476
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    I 100% think that the majority of the findings will be disinfo and/or redacted to the point of being completely useless.
     
    lewis likes this.
  4. crankyrayhanky

    crankyrayhanky SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    71
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Location:
    Mesa, AZ
    ^agreed, super probable
     
  5. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,599
    Likes Received:
    681
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    is the theory that the CIA or FBI or whoever, operates under their own agenda, completely against the USA government doing things like these assassinations, OR is the theory that these agencies are told to do x,y and z by the government?
     
  6. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    476
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    I think the theory is more along the lines of the CIA pulling the strings for whomever is pulling their strings.
     
    lewis likes this.
  7. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,599
    Likes Received:
    681
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    ah ok.

    Maybe the whole Patriots theory/watergate scandal is an appropriate way of viewing things.
    Ive always had a very hard time believe just 1 man, and only 1 man, at a time, can control the entire USA.

    Especially when the president is as ridiculous as Donald Trump. Surely, SURELY, he doesnt control the entire USA right?
     
  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    13,204
    Likes Received:
    1,290
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    Personally, I think Oswald did it, but I think that it's still completely possible that the CIA could have done it, just that they didn't, in this case.

    I know Steven King did a lot of independent research into the assassination when he was writing 11/22/63, and everything kept coming back to Oswald.

    One thing that is simply fascinating is that Oswald was well acquainted with George de Mohrenschildt, who was the brother of one of the key people involved in putting the CIA together, and was also well acquainted with Jackie Bouvier prior to her marriage to JFK.

    Whatever the story is, it's a hell of a lot more than what people know, but I do believe Oswald was the guy. He owned the rifle that killed JFK, and there's not much evidence to suggest that the evidence that suggests that it was his rifle could have been faked. Anything is possible, though.
     
  9. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    476
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    Oswald was the guy... :lol:

    Even though his army buddies said he was a poor shot.
     
    crankyrayhanky likes this.
  10. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    476
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    Not to mention they've not been able to replicate 3 shots in the amount of time allotted with the gun used, not to mention there are more than 3 shots fired.
     
  11. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

    Messages:
    13,204
    Likes Received:
    1,290
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Location:
    St. Johnsbury, VT USA
    How many shots were fired?

    I don't buy into the "not able to fire that many shots" angle. I've never fired a Carcano, but other bolt-action rifles I've fired could put out three shots in 5 seconds if you set your mind to it. Oswald's military buddies can say whatever they want, but his target practice logs are what they are. He may have not been the most accurate shot in his company, but he was still designated "sharpshooter." The argument that he couldn't have made that shot is a bit of a foggy argument, at best.

    Counting the number of shots fired is a bit more interesting, or else looking at the weirdness behind police reports that disagree on the weapon used (was it a Mauser or a Carcano?). Those sorts of things are documented in such a way that raises questions. The "he said, she said" angle of people sprouting up years afterward to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon and making new statements about Oswald's poor marksmanship (when documents from before the shooting contradicted the heresay anecdotes), and the time constraint, which I've seen several videos address, is a real sort of hand-waving theory.

    The Carcano is prone to jamming. Ok, say it jams 50% of the time. 3 consecutive shots means odd are 4:1 of a jam. That's still 1:4 of no jam, which is not an unreasonable expectation. When it doesn't jam, it can be fired once every two seconds. Shot one at 0 s, shot two at 2 s, shot three at 4 s, with one second to spare (going off of the most conservative time estimate of the shots). There's just no real argument to be had here. The accuracy part is the best argument of the bunch - can a level 2 marksman hit a (very slowly) moving target with that rifle 2/3 times? Who knows. Anything is possible. I could throw a dart blindfolded at a dartboard and I might hit a bullseye. It's a low probability until it's been done, then it either happened or not. That one I'd chalk up to "most speculative case scenario is 'no one knows.'" It's like if you told me that you threw three basketballs from half court and two went in the basket. That's be a scenario of "wow, that's hard to believe." Then you turn out to be a former NBA player, but not a particularly star-powered one. To me, that puts more credence on the claim that it happened. The scenario of that shooter with that rifle making that shot is maybe 50% unlikely, but meh, nothing there fits under "impossible," or even "highly unlikely."

    I do agree though, that the somewhat unlikely shot combined with all sorts of other weirdness around the case makes it a really interesting source for conspiracy theories. Maybe one of the theories is right - but, honestly, which conspiracy theory scenario is more likely than Oswald being the only shooter? That's the thing, out of a dozen unlikely scenarios, it's still the least unlikely.
     
  12. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    476
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    "I buy into the angle that Oswald shot the president, you know the one from the Warren Commission, but I don't buy the idea that they themselves couldn't shoot three shots in the 6 seconds or whatever it was."

    Jesus Christ. I'm sorry, but when you can come with something better than that, I'll do more than just mock your comment. Even the select committee in the 70s surmised that there MIGHT have been a 4th shot, and if there is a fourth shot, then there was a conspiracy. Sorry I'm not Stephen King and can convince you otherwise, though.
     
  13. MFB

    MFB ExBendable

    Messages:
    11,812
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    What if they're lying about not being able to replicate the 3 shots?
     
  14. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    476
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    If memory serves, the objective was to see if they could aim, shoot, reload, etc. the gun 3 times in the time it takes in the footage. Anyways, the House Select Committee ruled that there's a probability that there was a 4th shot, and thus, a second gunman, at which point there would have to be a conspiracy. They however didn't speculate as to what lengths the conspiracy went or who might have been involved.

    Interestingly, the pilot episode of the show Monk involved a political figure being shot. Their insinuation is that the shooter probably used the draw string on a set of blinds to kind of speed up the aiming process, but that someone had to be in on the conspiracy to know where the shooting was coming from due to echos. Monk has his assistant get up in one of the buildings and shoot the gun in order to get one of the political figures assistants who pointed in the direction of the shooter to basically admit to setting the whole thing up. Doesn't have anything to do with the JFK assassination, but I think it's implied notions are interesting anyways.
     
  15. MFB

    MFB ExBendable

    Messages:
    11,812
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    OK, but if you doubt everything else the government has said about the assassination, why take them on the fact that they couldn't replicate the test of aim/shoot/reload 3 times like LHO did? Have they released footage of them not being able to do it?

    I mean, if everything else is suspect, why not that too?
     
  16. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    476
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    Because others have attempted to prove it could be done, and they haven't been able to. In addition, the two main shots that hit JFK were not from the front. The Medical Examiner in Texas stated the throat wound was an entrance wound. The footage shows that the headshot came from the front and to the side.
     
  17. MFB

    MFB ExBendable

    Messages:
    11,812
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Thank you, that was what I was looking for.

    I've never looked into any JFK stuff since there's been so much in the ...54(?) years since it happened, that I'd never have the patience or time to get through all of it. Broad strokes are one thing, but the details like which were exit vs. entry wounds and that jazz, no thanks, ain't got time for that.

    So at least now if it's multiple sources trying it - and I'm sure someone's recorded their attempt by now - it's not just the simplest misdirect of:

    "Hey this is a government cover-up!"
    "But what if they're covering up the cover up?"
    "...oh shit..."
     
  18. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

    Messages:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    476
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Washington
    If you haven't got time to discuss exit vs entrance wound, then why are you bothering in the first place?
     
  19. MFB

    MFB ExBendable

    Messages:
    11,812
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Because so often are the discussions about these hit the same beats we hit every time, wouldn't it be nice if there was someone to look at it with a valid question that doesn't normally get brought up?
     
  20. downburst82

    downburst82 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    134
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Location:
    North Vancouver


    Obviously you can say it would have been very hard to pull off on a moving target and under stress..etc etc....but its been proven multiple times its possible to get the # of shots off accurately in the amount of time with the gun used.
     

Share This Page