Are Kiesel guitars worth if you live in EU?

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by lurè, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. lurè

    lurè Thy Art Is Mambo

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    A couple of months ago I used to hate headless instrument but now I'm planning on buying one and I'm gasing very hard for a Vader multiscale 8 string.

    The scale lenght and fan is perfect for my needs and I don't want any fancy top or finishes (their prices are insane).
    I was considering a 3 piece wenge-purpleheart and a mahogany or alder body with a solid color finish: nothing crazy.

    My biggest concern is that I'll have to pay about 400/500€ of pure taxes for a 1500/1600 € of the total price of the instrument.

    The other options available in EU are Strandbergs which are more expensive and the endurneck is not my cup of tea, or going for custom shop instrument which is even more expensive.

    My question is: should I still go for a Kiesel or is better to save up and add those 1k for a custom instrument?
     
  2. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Taking the hit on price might be worth it to go with Kiesel. Yeah, it sucks $500 is purely to get it, that's probably going to be ~30% the cost of the whole guitar, but I'd say most Kiesels play at the same level as most $2k guitars so it's not like you're getting totally hosed. You're just not getting as good of a deal.

    Also, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the EU have consumer protection laws that allow you to refuse/return a defective item regardless of the seller's policy? If so, it seems it would be a pretty safe bet to give Kiesel a chance.
     
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  3. lurè

    lurè Thy Art Is Mambo

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    Yes it's about 26% of the total price, it's not the best deal but it's still cheaper then other EU alternatives.
    A custom shop, would probably be a waste since I don't need crazy features.

    Regarding the consumer protection laws, I'm not completely sure they apply if you buy outside the EU territory, I'll have to check them out.

    Considering all the kiesel horror stories, do I have more chances of not getting scammed if I stick to simple features?
     
  4. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    First question, have you actually PLAYED an 8 string headless multi scale?

    It's pretty hard to judge how it will feel by pictures alone. I've had numerous times when I've had GAS for a particular guitar which then disappeared within minutes of actually playing it.

    That would be quite a risk to order a custom instrument without having a good idea of what you like.

    Second question, have you checked the return policy? As @MaxOfMetal says, the EU does have distance selling regulations, but you need to see whether that includes imported items which are not sold by an EU retailer. I suspect that the law only applies to items sold within the EU.
     
  5. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Every option you add brings with it another opportunity for something to go wrong.

    That goes for just about all makers though.

    Not to mention, the more options the higher the price the more taxes will be assessed.
     
  6. CerealKiller

    CerealKiller SS.org Regular

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    I'm pretty sure EU regulations don't cover you when importing yourself. You also wont get back the VAT if you should return it, and shipping costs back to the US could be high.
     
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  7. C_Henderson

    C_Henderson SS.org Regular

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    As far as I know, returns from the EU are still possible but more restrictive. On paper they still accept them in some cases, the 10-day policy is still applied, but knowing there will be an extra shipping time and knowing Kiesel that's another risk to consider.
    Also, all shipping and taxes are always at the buyer's expense, even for returns and repairs. So that means no full refunds, no matter what.
     
  8. The906

    The906 Hella rad Contributor

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    Buy a used one from good Reverb seller or someone here? Reduce risk and save money.
     
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  9. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire despair ahead

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    price wise? hell no, unless you buy used.
    quality wise? yeah I think they're worth importing, but again, I'd recommend going used if possible.
    as far as i know kiesel doesn't offer wenge, they do have purpleheart laminates in some necks , but I've never seen wenge on a build.
     
  10. lurè

    lurè Thy Art Is Mambo

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    my bad, I meant walnut not wenge

    Yes it's an option but they're not so easy to find, at least I'm not finding any on Reverb.

    No, but my bandmate is buying a Strandberg which I'm gonna try just check how the multiscale feels.
    Even if I'm not used to the fanned frets I don't think I'll be completely thrown off by a 1.5" fan, I usually play a 27" 8 string.
     
  11. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire despair ahead

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    the vader has a very comfortable fan imo, same with the strandberg, but the neck shapes are verrry different. the vader has more of a d shape similar to say an rg8.
     
  12. lurè

    lurè Thy Art Is Mambo

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    Also a used Strandberg goes for around 2k which is the price of a new kiesel vat and taxes included.

    I can't compare the two quality wise but, unless I'm completely blown away by the endurneck ( I doubt it since I'm so used to RG necks), I'd rather take the risk and go for a kiesel.
     
  13. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire despair ahead

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    the endurneck is very much a love/hate thing. i think it's overly bulky and not very comfortable, and i'm not picky about necks at all.
    speaking from personal experience all of my kiesels have been higher quality in terms of fit/finish and factory setup than the bodens i owned.
     
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  14. lurè

    lurè Thy Art Is Mambo

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    Opinions in lithiums? Are they a swap ASAP pickups or are decent?
    I've watched a couple of videos in yt but they gave me the impression they lack a bit on low end, very twangy almost like a single coil
     
  15. C_Henderson

    C_Henderson SS.org Regular

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    You'll find varying opinions. I personally can't stand them, IME they're incredibly bright and shrill, but nothing like a single coil, with no body and a very hollow low end. Definitely among my least favourite pickups I've ever tried.
     
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  16. laxu

    laxu SS.org Regular

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    This depends on the country. Here in Finland you can submit a form to customs if you return the guitar and get taxes paid back. Shipping costs will be a big thing though.

    I ordered a Kiesel AM7 and paid all the taxes and shipping and I feel I got a guitar worth my money.

    I had a love/hate relationship with the Lithium pickups at first but now like them. They are very bright and articulate so they don't have that low mid girth to achieve this but that's kind of what I like about them. They are perfect for funk but you should get familiar with the tone knob to tame the top end. They are good sounding pickups but have a unique sound that you either like or don't. I would not pair them with an ash body.

    Strandberg has very good return policy and easy returns if you want to give them a try.
     
  17. lurè

    lurè Thy Art Is Mambo

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    In case I want to swap them, which pickup companies have the option of a slanted pickup for a multiscale kiesel? I'm not sure about BKP, I might as well try Instrumental or Elysian pickups.
     
  18. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire despair ahead

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    guitarmory, instrumental, elysian all do custom slanted pickups or rewinds. bkp don't make the exact slant that kiesel uses so you'd have to do a baseplate swap in that case.
    the lithiums are quite bright, but i actually liked them in my 8 strings compared to my 6 string. my koa 8 string in particular managed to mellow the high end a bit and gave them some nice growl that they lacked in my other 8 string. most people dislike them because they forget that neck throughs are generally going to be brighter than bolt ons (generally speaking more glue joints=brighter sound). The neck woods used in a neck through play a bigger part in making the guitar feel brighter/warmer than with a bolt on.
     
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  19. lurè

    lurè Thy Art Is Mambo

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    Guitarmory and Elysian have both my attention.

    I've heard the Obsidian in a couple of clips and really liked it, it's my type of pickup: not uber modern but still articulate and tight.

    Need to check also guitarmory for a pickup with a similar vibe.
     
  20. Maximal

    Maximal SS.org Regular

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    Do you have to pay the us vat when importing to the EU plus the EU taxes or the EU import taxes only? If both apply I personally wouldn't go for it and just buy a used os8 or vader if you can find one..
     

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