Are expectations too high on new gear?

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by CrazyDean, Dec 18, 2017.

Are our expectations in guitar finishes too high?

  1. Yes

    62.5%
  2. No

    26.6%
  3. All guitars should be perfect, even my $200 Ibanez Gio.

    10.9%
  1. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    I didnt see the other thread but I can't see many people expecting High End options for anything less than what they cost. I can however see many people expecting a guitar at any level for any price to not have dings, scratches, cracked binding, etc.
     
  2. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    OK, but aside from bubbles, literally none of those things are cosmetic issues, which is what the thread is about, and is the issue in both of the example threads that have been linked to so far, where we're saying "These people are expecting way too fucking much".

    Like, come on dude, stay somewhat with the topic here.
     
  3. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    OK, but aside from bubbles, literally none of those things are cosmetic issues, which is what the thread is about, and is the issue in both of the example threads that have been linked to so far, where we're saying "These people are expecting way too fucking much".

    Like, come on dude, stay somewhat with the topic here.
     
  4. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    When I buy a sweater at the store, I go through them and pick out the one without any funny threads. Sweaters with funny threads should get pushed on to discount shops and liquidators. If it's the last one on the shelf in my size, and I really want it, but it has a funny thread, I ask for (and generally receive) a discount.

    When I buy a head of lettuce, I go through them and pick out the one that doesn't have any broken stalks or ripped leaves. Some stores even have a bruised produce bin to put the ugly ones, where they are sold for a discounted price.

    The point I'm trying to make is that: I don't believe I'm the only one who does this, so obviously there is some amount of precedent in everyday life for us to expect to get a perfect one for the price we pay irrespective of what that price is.
     
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  5. exo

    exo SS.org Regular

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    I honestly didn't read the poll question, just replied based on the thread title, "Are expectations too high on new gear?"
     
  6. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    But what if you bought online lettuce and it had some brown leaves? haha, jk..Kind of
     
  7. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    Well I mean, that's kind related to my point. Presumably, produce for online orders is being vetted to a more extreme degree than what goes out at the store. Can anyone confirm or deny? Anyone order groceries online?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  8. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    I just got a box of fruit from my grandmother across the country lol.

    It is flawless. Plump, juicy and ripe. No discoloration anywhere and the taste is magnificent.

    This is some pretty high end fruit though ymmv.
     
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  9. Dineley

    Dineley SS.org Regular

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    Lot of stuff going on here, so forgive my rambling all over the map response.

    Like people have mentioned your dollar is worth way less now than it was before. And also people are on crack if they compare what was around in 20 years ago to what you get now.

    All these bound neck through sculpted neck heel with name brand pickups and hardware guitars in the 700 to 1000 dollar range are incredibly good bang for your buck.

    Go back to the days of Duncan designed, Ibanez Junk or EMG HZ pickups, garbage floyds and garbage tunomatics that like even on a nice Epiphone Les Paul you would have to replace most of the hardware pickups and electronics to get it on par with what you can get today.

    I know . bit of extra glue or the route for your string ferrule not being tight like Dakota fanning is a bit of a drag, but seriously the machine you are getting is pretty damn impressive.

    If you can tune it up, play it and create music with it, I don't want to see a thread where your phone is one c*nt hair away from the guitar to show the "ATROCIOUS FIT AND FINISH" issues with your guitar.
     
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  10. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    Absolutely. And let's not forget that those guitars at the time were ALSO dramatically better than instruments in the same price ranges from 20 years before that - People used to defend those TRS and Edge 3 bridges and Duncan Designed pickups with the same arguments - "They're so much better than guitars used to be!"

    I remember getting told by several people about their first guitars when I was starting out. I had a cheapy Squier Strat that did all the things a cheap strat should do. They were telling me about balsa wood bodies, single pickup guitars with the pickup wired directly to the output jack and no truss rod.

    Like you said, if you compare what you get now to what you got then, you have to be smoking some pretty strong stuff to not realise just how good value the £500-1000 bracket is compared to equivalent brackets from yesteryear.
     
  11. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    I know some people mention that guitars 20 years back that were mid tier or lower tier well flawless and defect free but it might depend on which country you lived in. I'll give you my experience from the perspective of a smaller country that had everything imported in quite a high premium. Truth be told I started being interested in the guitar at about 19-20 years old so the situation was slighlty changing by then.

    There were two levels of instruments you could find in Greek music stores, low end guitars that cost what mid tier guitars cost in other countries and high end guitars that cost quite a bit more than other counties as well. Most guitars in the then $400-$500 back then where black, black or black guitars with those aweful plasticky poly coats, noname garbage pickups, electronics and tuners and no name hardware. They would be 90% bolt ons with rosewood fretboards and mile high action that would require a really competent tech to make playable and a chunk of cash. Of course there would not be much cosmetic flaws as yhe only thing requiring finishing would be the black coloured body, no binding anywhere and of course no finish on the neck and headstock. Sometimes you'd be lucky to get a matched black headstock. Inlays would be plastic dots centered of course. Rarely you'd find a mid tier instrument in a shop and you had to order and buy to try. Still the prices were quite high for what you would get in other countries. The high end stuff were awesome but would cost more ore less what most people made in a year.

    I remeber my friend got a Jackson KV4 (I think it's this model) that is a bolt on guitar with rosewood fretboard, 22 frets, Duncan Design pickups, Jackson trem and Jackson tuners with no case for what would be 900 Euros in the then converted Greek currency. This at the time of course kicked serious ass as a guitar and it played decently but if I compare it with a Jackson pro for the same amount or cheaper that you can buy today with a neckthrough design, EMG or real SD passive pickuos, FR 1000 series, ebony fretboard, matched headstock with the choice of solid color or a veneer, matched color headstock, graphite rods reinforcement and satin neck then I can see a clear winner spec wise. And I'd dare say playability wise as I tried one of the KV pros and they played really well.

    And yes $1000, £1000, €1000 is not a small amount of money for most people, myself included. And I understand that most people might expect a flawless guitar for the money. If that's the case then my advice would be if buying new to track down guitars and models that have basic specs but are build in first world countries. Then if possible try before you buy especially for guitars with fancier specs to see if you're happy with the instrument.

    I had bought a Schecter SLS used that absolutely slayed in terms of looks and playbaility. It had some minor cosmetic flawas and one of the ferrules wasn't super well set. You know how it sounded? Mosntrous, even having a 3 piece body from what I gathered. The only reason I sold it was because I tracked down a Jackson USA in a really good price and needed the cash to get it. Otherwise it would have gone nowhere. I had it in ebay and do you knwo what I had a guy message me about and ask photos off? That the top, or should I say the veneer, didn't seem that well matched. I obliged and sent him photos to see and still he said the main thing, the top didn't seem to match that well. I replied to him that the guitar played and sounded excellently and that of course an instrument like that would not have the same quality top like my £2000 Carvin. I don't know if he was trying to haggle down the price but man I found that idiotic.
     
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  12. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    Good points TBH ^^^ The $500 jackson I had was indeed black with basswood/rosewood and no binding.

    Cheap electronics and hardware. But it was still flawless and constructed very well. A lot of guitars even today have cheap pickups, especially Ibanez. I paid $1,400 for a lifeless guitar in 2009 and it had garbage pickups.

    Idk I see points on both sides but either way, I still think people need to stop accepting junk and letting these manufacturers keep doing it.

    If you cant make a flawless binding, don't offer binding.
     
  13. EmaDaCuz

    EmaDaCuz Brutal yet soulful

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    We are not talking about features, though... we are talking about finishes and QC in general.

    I still stand my point, no matter what I pay I expect an instrument that is flawless. I don't mind if the body is made of cardboard and the pickups are just a microphone glued onto the body; if this "guitar" is playable and well assembled, and it costs $20, I am happy.

    In other words, price should only reflect the quality of the components, not the quality of the manufacturing.
     
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  14. Lindmann

    Lindmann SS.org Rectangular

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    I think it really comes down to what kind of guitar player you are and what the guitar is intended to be.

    I for one don't even look that close at my guitars whenever I got a new one. It is gonna be bruised on stage anyway so there's no need for an in-detail check.

    Someone who plays his guitars mostly at home and has them hanging on the wall as some kind of decor however might put more importance in perfect finishes.
     
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  15. NickS

    NickS Carvinite

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    That's about how I feel as well. The baseline, for me, is a job "done right." Even if the components are higher end, and the price reflects that, I'm not gonna buy the guitar if the finish/build is messed up, UNLESS there is some sort of discount or some way to make up for it. But that is another topic in it's own right....

    I guess I would say that I personally think a flawless build is to be expected, and the price-to-component ratio should determine what you will pay.
     
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  16. Dineley

    Dineley SS.org Regular

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    I feel like half the people complaining about excess glue showing where the binding meets the body, are the same people that years ago would have begged for some affordable models with neck binding.
     
  17. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    Honestly at this point this thread is going nowhere - if you're all going to be a bunch of fucking babies who won't play anything that isn't a fucking pristine, never-touched case queen? Put your fucking guitars down and go collect something else you'll never touch.

    If you're prepared to accept that finish doesn't determine sound or playability though? You should be damn well fucking thankful that guitars in 2017 at every pricepoint sound better and are more playable than they've EVER BEEN for any equivalent amount of money in any year.

    That's what matters. Put the money into that. The guitar makers you all want to whine about sure as fuck are doing...
     
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  18. NickS

    NickS Carvinite

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    I never said that I wouldn't play, or even buy, a guitar with some finish flaws or issues or whatever. IF there are "issues" with the guitar I am perfectly happy to further investigate what can be done to fix them, whether it is pricing, or just fixing the problem. BUT, like I also said, I think that is maybe even another threads worth of discussion on its own.

    What I did say is that my ideal situation, for a new guitar, is to have no flaws so that I can clearly determine if the specs and/or looks of the guitar are worth the agreed upon price.
     
  19. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    The issue is the definition of "flaw".

    Again, take a look at this image: https://imgur.com/a/YEXRI

    To someone, that was "flawed" binding. To anyone that isn't a waste of skin, the lack of to-the-micron-precision in that binding transition is the reason the guitar can have the RIDICULOUSLY high spec it does, without also costing your firstborn. The owner admits the guitar plays great and sounds good.

    You want a world where that guitar, at that price, has that spec, and also has absolutely razor sharp, straight as an arrow binding/paint transitions? It doesn't exist. It can't be done. You want that level of fit and finish you are going to have to pay an actual human being with high skills in a first world country the appropriate wage to make it happen.

    If you want to pour money into guitars with weak feature lists and great finishes, there's a world of guitar companies out there that will take your money and give you a bad, but pretty, guitar.

    If you want to actually be a musician and not a COMPLETE poser, then suck it up and either pay the bills or deal with making compromises to get a guitar that plays better than it looks.

    Ultimately I say this:

    Great Performing, Great Looking, Cheap.

    Pick any two, assholes.
     
  20. NickS

    NickS Carvinite

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    Okay buddy, calm down. No one accused you of liking Nickelback, or some other equally offensive sin.

    I assume that the pic you posted is from one of the threads others have mentioned in here as being tied to this one? I am not familiar with that thread, but being that upset about that binding is ridiculous....
     
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