Are expectations too high on new gear?

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by CrazyDean, Dec 18, 2017.

Are our expectations in guitar finishes too high?

  1. Yes

    60.7%
  2. No

    26.2%
  3. All guitars should be perfect, even my $200 Ibanez Gio.

    13.1%
  1. CrazyDean

    CrazyDean SS.org Regular

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    It seems to me that there are more and more complaints on this forum about "I bought a $300 guitar and it's a lemon because there are minor finish flaws." Do you guys agree, or am I just being sensitive? I'm not sure where these high expectations came from, but I'd like to know.

    Interestingly enough, I've also found that most people don't take care of their guitars all that well. I find it odd that anyone would spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a guitar and never bother to give it a proper setup or a good clean once in a while. I realize that a guitar is meant to be played and not used as decoration, but I find that my playing improves with a nice, clean guitar vs a dirty, sticky one.
     
  2. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

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    yup


    and because I know what tread triger you the idea for this, let me put these two perfect quotes from it

     
  3. CrazyDean

    CrazyDean SS.org Regular

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    Well, I considered making this thread months ago, actually. But yes, this and another thread that I saw this weekend pushed me over the edge.

    What I really want to know is where the entitlement came from. Why is perfection expected suddenly? It certainly wasn't when I joined the forum seven years ago. I seem to remember this coming about much more recently.

    There's also been a big hang-up on features lately, most notably fancy woods, but that's a different question all together. Bah, I must be getting old.
     
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  4. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

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    yeh I know, I have seen bunch of treads like that. But for me it does comes from this forum. It kinda elevates the bar for what GAS is about. Way too muhc talk about gear and specs and finishes and different levels of build, and custom shops, ect ect, only makes you more aware of it, and more picky when time comes to get your own
     
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  5. Masoo2

    Masoo2 SS.org Regular

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    Our expectations are definitely too high when it comes to finishes and QC, but there's no reason not to want your guitar to end up in perfect condition.

    One definitely shouldn't expect Gios, MIC, MII, or anything similar to come out flawless, but the more MIK guitars coming out of the factories nearly perfect the better imo.
     
  6. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    I think people get the wrong message from a lot of reviews and youtube videos. There are big things to focus on and minor quibbles and people aren't really differentiating between the two.

    A lot of times you'll have people complaining about finish flaws or small scratches without ever really being able to explain how the guitar plays. For a lot of stuff, if the frets aren't sharp, the neck is straight, and it play well that's already really really good.
     
  7. Anquished

    Anquished hhnice!

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    To be fair I've mostly seen that with guitars worth $2k+ here. Which I would say for the most part is justified, that is alot of money to part with.
     
  8. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    I thought ss.org’s whole gimmick was that the bar gets lowered each day, and everyone asks if the bar djents.
     
  9. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    If I compare what I can get with 300-400 in dolars, euros and pounds now with what I could get 20 years ago then it's unbelievable. Yes there are cosmetic flaws but back then you had that plus most guitars at that price range would be firewood.

    Now there are several factors that play into that. If we take this site as reference all those high end super crazy fancy customs do get our minds boggled up and we of course want that in a low price that we can afford. That can't happen on industrial build guitars that have to cut corners on other areas to deliver a lower price instrument with fancy specs. Especcialy if it's a first run of intruments on companies that use specific spec on their older models. It's not impossible to get it right on the first try just improbable.

    The sheer abundance of companies and guitars flung around. There's a lot of competition and in order to sell products prices must be driven down on low and mid tier instruments. Companies don't make money only selling high end expensive guitars and have to sell lower price ones. Those have to be nowdays as appealling as their most expensive counterparts so see above problem with specs vs QC.

    To cut costs guitas are being built in other countries. Depending on the plant, employees, training, salaries and money the company hiring those plants want to spent on the whole product will set the final price and the specs and QC. Case in point some of the premium Ibanez guitars wiith fancy woods that do have finish flaws but still are not that cheap (mid tier price going to the lower limits of upper tier prices). However if the same model was built in Japan it would be two to thee times the price as it would be a build above their current high end instruments but would also have the attention to detail and QC those have.

    Since more sales are online now and with the great number of guitar companies and models most stores can't afford to have guitars on stock so people can walk in and try them. And that's even in big cities let alone smaller cities and more isolated regions of the world. A way to attract customers are fancy woods and specs, since with social media xyz guitar personality flaunts their new snazzy instrument in the faces of others.

    Opinions on instruments and perception of reality. If you can't try a guitar yourself you're left on the opinion of others that will experience and see things differently than you. Personal example I wanted to get a BC Rich JrV deluxe and asked a guy from youtube that reviewed it for his opinion. He said it was a great guitar, played really well and was well built. I did buy the guitar and found all those minor cosmetic flaws and was a bit dissapointed as I had bought it new and not used. When I got the stick out of my ass and started playing it more and enjoying the guitar I could see what he meant and any minor cosmetic flaws stoped existing. Some of the most famous reviewers to get the best examples of the model they're reviewing so their opinion is no false advertizing as some people might think.

    I won't mentioned entintlement more as it seems to be an increasing issue. When I get a new guitar I'm happy to be able to afford it and the only thing I want is if it's a used instrument that the seller is truthful about any issues and the conition of the instrument. Meaning if he says it's perfect out of the box and it comes full of rust, buzzing like hell and banged up then I'll get upset. If he says it's a guitar that has been played and is in good condition for it's age and has no structural faults then I'm expecting signs of use.

    TL;DR The multitude of choice in guitar manufacturers and models, social media, not being able to try guitars first hand, demand for crazy specs with lower prices and entitlement will get some people into overdrive about issues. Everyone wants to get the famed low price bargain that's an outstanding guitar but few do.
     
  10. Lemonbaby

    Lemonbaby SS.org Regular

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    Exactly. When I started playing guitar and bass around 1990, the instruments in the sub 1000 bucks range were literally of catastrophic quality. Even the high-end Ibanez/Gibson/Fender guitars were far from what you get today...
     
  11. Andromalia

    Andromalia Pardon my french

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    I'd still say that whatever the product, it shouldn't have defects. Sure, a cheap guitar will have cheaper components, maybe shorter lived ones, but "cheap" isn't a reason to sell microphonic guitars or frets suited to cut ham. Entry level stuff like Squier are often pretty good in that regard, there is no reason to accept blemishes on any product.
     
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  12. cwhitey2

    cwhitey2 BlackendCrust Metal™

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    To me it really depends on what I'm buying and spending.

    If I buy a new Prestige I expect a near flawless guitar.

    I do not have the same expectations for a LTD 400 series as I would for a Prestige.


    That being said, I do not expect an unplayable 400 series guitar or one that cuts my hands from fret ends.
     
  13. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    It's a little bit of a straw man, isn't it, since none of the threads complaining about QC are about 200$ Ibanez Gios, are they. The big threads I'm thinking of are about guitars that cost $700-$1000+
     
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  14. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    Hell no, you guys are the ones allowing companies to produce shit by accepting crap.

    I bought a Jackson performer for $500 in the 90's and it was flawless. I have gotten more expensive guitars without any issues as well. There is absolutely no reason to have to spend double that amount to get a guitar with tons of flaws.

    I expect it to play good and yeah I expect no finish flaws.

    I just spent over a grand on an LTD with cracks all over the binding plus more issues. That got sent right back even though the guitar played and sounded great.

    ESP reps said they are going to make it right and get me a nice one without any issues and that is how it should be. I guess everyone will have issues but if they fix the issue than I am good with that.


    This is the answer ^^^
     
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  15. Edika

    Edika SS.org Regular

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    I don't think anyone mentioned that the guitar should be unplayable in any price tier. Just that with the volume of production it's understandable that there might be some minor finish flaws. I'm not speaking about scratches, chips and dings but if the masking isn't super great, the trem and pickup cavity might not have the greatest paint job then it's not the end of the world. Should you ask for a discount or even send it back? Definitely the first and if the flaws are too bad then the second.

    And of course companies should be held accountable but you have to realize that most of the big and small companies order their import lines from the same few factories and have a specific profit they have to make. Depending on the level of detail per price and taking into account faulty items there is a margin of imperfections that is deemed acceptable. Some consumers will mind others not as much. If a person that plays guitar for a few good years and has had nicer guitars will understand the issues a lot more from a novice intermediate guitarist.
     
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  16. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    Not sure what places you went to but I have found the exact opposite. In the 90's I could get a flawless mid tier guitar off the rack at a local music store for $500. Today that same guitar is $800+ with cosmetic issues.

    My 1993 Ibanez S540 is light years ahead of the quality I got from a 2009 S5470. Not even close, the 2009 was the firewood that people are talking about.
     
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  17. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    When I see people posting about a very minor scuff on the back of the guitar near the backplate I roll my eyes.

    But it’s a “vote with your wallet” thing. The more quality/features people demand the better it gets. Because whoever delivers gets the business.

    Schecter is taking people’s lunch money because they’re both innovating and have ramped up quality very well.

    If someone else wants my money now they have to beat THAT.

    Way better today than the “Harmony” brand Strat knockoff I grew up playing.

    So a little column A and a little column B.
     
  18. Lemonbaby

    Lemonbaby SS.org Regular

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    In 1990, we could only get the early Korean crap (Fenix, Vester) for 600 quid. Those “instruments“ weren't even close to any PRS SE you get today in the same price range. An RG550 was around 1400 bucks, sported cheap components like the V-pickups and e.g. open fret slots that even a Premium doesn't have today...
     
  19. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    Dealers, be sure to send this guy your B stocks. He will enjoy :)

    I do agree on the vote for your wallet. That is exactly what I do but I just wish more people were in line with the same thought process.

    As long as people keep eating crap, the companies will keep feeding them crap.

    I posted this same thread elsewhere as this is a topic I am interested in. One guy had a very good reply. Don't expect a $500 to perform the same as a $5,000.

    Which I do not however, I do expect the $500 not to be covered in scratches and blemishes.
     
  20. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    I buy 90% of my gear used as I don’t like eating depreciation costs. If I’m buying new anymore it’s $2k+ EBMM or ESP’s where I know exactly what I’m getting.

    I’ll forgive things on a 700 (even new) that I would torch a retailer for at $2k.
     
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