Anyone on here particularly religious?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Hollowway, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    I'm wondering if people who are fairly religious feel that those that worship a different god are going to be saved or not. In other words, most Christian religions believe that you have to accept Jesus as your savior, otherwise you will go to Hell. Yet, don't find most average church goers telling their Jewish, Muslim, a Buddhist friends that they should convert before it's too late. Nor do I see those other religions doing the same.

    So my question is, is it just a matter of believing that they will be going to Hell, and there's no point in proselytizing, or is there a belief that everyone is praying to the same god, just through different channels?
     
  2. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I'm not religious, but one of the reasons I started thinking seriously about truth claims made by various faiths was the serious hate-on my evangelical christian family members had towards catholics. "The Frozen Chosen" was one slightly kinder epithet they would level at those "heathen catholics."

    I think it's a matter of degrees, where people express their antipathy based on the current situation. Young-earth creationists get into arguments with old-earth creationists, but both unite against those who don't believe in creationism.

    Similarly, you have various faiths decrying others in private, but uniting in public.

    I had one evangelical christian coworker, now gone, who was constantly making a special effort to get jewish coworkers to visit her church. The jewish coworkers later told me that evangelicals constantly "witness" to them, with their targets feeling like there must be some bonus points attached to getting jews to accept Jeebus.
     
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  3. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Yeah, I know some people who are very matter of fact about others going to hell, and then others who seem to not be as vocal about it. So I'm never really sure what is going on behind the scenes.
     
  4. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    I don't know that I'm "particularly religious" -- whatever that means -- but I am Christian. Not a good one, mind you, but one none the less. Anyways, I don't care what others believe or do as long as they aren't bombing people, mutilating people, or waging holy jihad on others.
     
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  5. auxioluck

    auxioluck Metal Teddy Bear

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    I spent most of my life as an agnostic while I studied religions over the course of over 10 years. I began identifying as Hindu about 4 years ago. I don't believe anyone needs to believe in anything, nor do I think anyone is going to some terrible afterlife for not following a certain idea or deity. Every religion/ideology speaks to everyone a different way, and I will not judge anyone on what they worship (or don't) as long as it helps them be a better person.

    My personal opinion in regards to engaging people that are firmly rooted in their beliefs is this: don't discuss it with someone unless you know they are willing to have an intelligent, open conversation about it. Sadly, those people are increasingly rare. But as soon as you feel that someone isn't going to budge, don't push the issue. All you will typically get is scripture quoted, and the conversation is usually over by that point. I have my own opinions about how many aspects of Christianity (and other religions) rely on indoctrination (see: brainwashing) of youth. It still makes me sad to see how many people were never given the choice as children to believe what they wanted, and now spend their adult lives in a non-inquisitive, unquestioning state.

    I find more and more people on social media who label themselves as some form of "warrior" for whatever deity they worship. These people are another type of animal, and should typically just be avoided entirely. But that can be said for any religious extremist, regardless of faith.

    After all these years, the only response I still have in regards to people that firmly believe they will go to Hell if they don't worship a certain deity is: Fear is a powerful tool (see: childhood indoctrination).
     
  6. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    I think most people who want to find an excuse to act badly towards others will search for the cause or faith which validates those desires.

    As an example, Hinduism doesn't require belief in reincarnation, but enough Hindus have acted to treat Dalits as less than human that one can't reasonably claim Hinduism hasn't led to oppression. It's still happening, because enough of the Hindus keep ostracism going.

    Now, it's telling that you rarely hear about the racism espoused by the gentle Ba'hai. That's because the teachings don't give as much cover to such desires. I think it was Seth Andrews who accurately noted, "If you have a problem with your religion's fundamentalists, you probably have a problem with your religion's fundamentals." Jainism and Ba'hai-ism don't provide that kind of cover.

    So, there are definitely nice people in the various faiths, and the slow process of such people changing a bloodthirsty deity's edicts by instead substituting their own, less violent ideas is what leads to certain christians rejecting their god's endorsement of correct slavery, or to certain muslims rejecting their god's death penalty for unbelievers.

    My own view is that the violent ones use the non-fundamentalists as camouflage and plausible deniability.
     
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  7. chopeth

    chopeth SS.org Regular

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    Religion is a cancer. Everything would be better if science filled that gap in our lives. I hate to see people worshiping a piece of carved wood (except for instruments, hehe) while they look down on you for not believing in their fantasy tales.
     
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  8. Dcm81

    Dcm81 SS.org Regular

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    Shia and Sunni......speaks for itself I think.
     
  9. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    can we count existential nihilism? I meet every week by myself at the church of my apartment and get wasted in reverence of the meaninglessness of human existence
     
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  10. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I was thinking about it the other day because of a conversation that came up- but more and more I'm reminded that there was a point where being a person of some faith was the default, and "atheist" was a sort of dirty word, whereas my own generation and younger seem to be flipping that view around in the sense that I assume most people below my age are atheist by default (maybe that's just wishful thinking). My grandmother made a comment the other day that surprised me, something along the lines of "I think some part of me has always been a bit atheist". Caught me off guard because I never thought of her as a faithful person in the first place, but of course she's from a very different generation.

    Honestly, I try to be respectful of people's religion, but the whole thing baffles (and almost sort of scares me) that anyone actually believes any of this stuff. For a long time I assumed that the majority of people who identified as religious were either just saying so to be part of the social group, or because their family said that was the case, to maintain tradition, and they took the "beliefs" as metaphor, etc. I didn't think anyone actually BELIEVED any of it, because how could anyone? I understand that at some point there was nothing to fill the gaps in our understanding of the world, but we haven't had that excuse for quite a while now- I struggle to understand how faith continues to be a thing in modern times when everyone and everything is connected and accessible.
     
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  11. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    My father was raised Lutheran, but was never particularly religious, aside from making it clear that he believed in an afterlife. My mother, on the other hand, has gone through a lot of different religious phases. I was raised baptist at a very strict school, but the things we were taught in school certainly didn't represent the baptist doctrine very well.

    I guess what I am getting at is that everyone's beliefs are a little different, as their religious dogma is taught to them and then develops on its own.

    We were taught a rather inconsistent view, as a matter of a sort of sanctioned stance on other religions. The people at the school were very friendly toward other religions, like Judaism and Hinduism, yet combative toward Catholicism and Lutheranism- especially Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, though. I got the feeling that the general reason for this attitude was that Catholics would be more difficult to convert to Protestantism (which is actually statistically untrue). So, if they thought you were an easy target to convert, you were a friend, and if you were a difficult target to convert, you were an enemy. If you were busy out there converting people to another religion, you earned bonus spite.

    Nowadays, I hold firmly a belief in no religions. I think that religions were invented by people early in the age of antiquity in order to control the herd by threat of torture in the afterlife by a vengeful supernatural being. I think that in later antiquity, there was a movement to offer a reward instead of punishment with newer religions, but that, in the end, that simply made followers of these "newer" religions more violent and unstable, as people inevitably mix the dogma they are taught with their own personal internal psychosis er, umm, beliefs. This deep into the modern era, the big religions are vestigial. They are no longer useful for controlling society, but, like a tonsil or appendix, they can still become infected and be used to cause irritation and danger.
     
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  12. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire baritone6/8 string hoarder

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    The only problem with that is that there are already zealots in science who are trying to twist science to their devices. Look at the infamous saturated fat study done by Ancel Keys, which shows a very strong upward trend/correlation between intake of saturated fats and prevalence of heart disease (the data was trimmed to remove outliers and to preserve the r value, which is a big no-no). Granted, he also worked on the 7 countries study which is one of the leading longitudinal studies on the subject, and the source of a lot of great data. Keys himself wasn't the problem, but people who tried to be reductive and simplify what the study said into "fat= bad". Thus began the dark times of the low-fat crusade. There are countless other examples of people manipulating their data so that they can keep getting funding, so they can get awards, or because they were paid to do so. Science works best when the scientific method/proper statistical analysis is rigorously applied. The data itself isn't the problem but the interpretation of it (just like the bible in christianity). Interpretation is the key problem in both aspects imo. Personally I find the bible to be a hilarious work of fiction right alongside the mormon bible, but clearly my opinion isn't shared by the numerous people that take them literally as the word of god/their prophets. People make fun of scientology but is a magical space alien any less far-fetched than a magical omniscient,omnipotent being that created a planet and its ecosystem in 7 days?
     
  13. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    ^since this is now a religion thread and someone said Scientology, here is a little known factoid:

    Wicca was first released to the public in 1954, the same year as Scientology. People think that Wicca is an ancient European religion or something like that, but it was just made up by a dude who happened to be into European traditions and folklore, around the same time that Scientology was made up by a guy who was into science fiction stories.

    People act like Scientology is the dumbest thing on the planet that only an empty-headed rube could buy into, so I find it funny that Wicca isn't usually treated with the same degree of cynicism, considering they are both 100% fabricated by published writers (of the same respective "genre") only 60 years ago.
     
  14. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire baritone6/8 string hoarder

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    I think the reason wicca gets away with it is because it attempts to hearken back to pagan traditions, so that gives it a bit more legitimacy than scientology with it's pseudoscience gobbledigook. That'd be the only reason I can see it not being treated the same way as scientology.
     
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  15. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    Why is pseudo-pagan any more gobbledigook than pseudo-science?

    I get what you're saying though: Wicca appeals to people aesthetically. Actually, historians often argue that the aesthetics of Buddhism is one of the main reasons that it took off in the far East.
     
  16. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Does it though? It's made fun of a bit less, but I don't think very many people take it seriously from the outside. I hate to say it, but the only people I know of who have ever made any "serious" claims about Wicca obviously chose it for aesthetic purposes, not because of any rational deliberation about the real world around them.

    Edit: Maybe as an exception, in some cases, I've seen it picked up by some people who claimed to be "spiritual", but mostly just believed in a hodge-podge of spiritual nonsense mashed together irrespective of origin that they find all over the place. I have a friend or two with developmental/psychological issues who latch onto this sort of "spirituality" to explain/justify their experiences.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  17. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    I've personally met more than a few people who seem to think that Wicca is pre-Christian religious belief system. They obviously had interest in it only for aesthetics, though I doubt they'd admit it, but I feel the vast majority of people, myself included until recently, don't know that it parallels Scientology with regards to origin.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  18. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Wicca has been around just a tad bit longer than Scientology, but, mainly, it doesn't have as much visibility. I hear people often making fun of both, though.
     
  19. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    Even if some try to twist science to their own ends, the scientific method has corrective measures built into it which, over time, eliminate the impact of zealots.

    The core pillars of empiricism and evidence are what separate science from most religions except for Temple Satanism.

    Without evidence and replicability, you get *only* interpretation as a tool for debate, as shown by the numerous flavors of christianity, islam and so on.
     
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  20. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I've never heard of anyone strapping a bomb to himself and yelling "praise science!" before blowing himself up in a crowded area.
    Science, in it's proper form, doesn't even attempt to explain matters that cannot been observed nor measured. Therefore, science does not interfere fundamentally with religion, as long as religion tries to stick to supernatural stuff and philosophical questions. As soon as a religion states that the Earth is flat, or that insects have four legs, or that geese are a type of fish, then religion oversteps its bounds and ends up, almost always, being proven wrong.

    Generally, science is open to correction and augmentation (in fact, encourages it), whereas religion is closed.

    Science versus religion shouldn't even be a thing. They are two completely different sorts of things that should in no way ever interfere with one another anyway.
     
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