Another mass shooting... Orlando Fl.

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by DistinguishedPapyrus, Jun 12, 2016.

  1. DistinguishedPapyrus

    DistinguishedPapyrus SS.org Regular

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    How horrible to wake up to a news headline telling about another mass shooting. This time at a gay night club in Orlando Fl, called Pulse. This is in my home state. I live in another part of the state but this was about 20 minutes away from some relatives. Thank God no one I know was actually there, but still kinda breaks my heart. So far the reports are 50 dead, 53 injured and/or in the hospital. Apparently the shooter claimed allegiance to ISIS. Most likely a lone shooter, took several people hostage for about 3 hours, SWAT team had to bust a hole in the wall in the side of the building to create an escape for some of them, and eventually the shooter died in a gunfight with the police. I am a Christian, and albeit I don't agree with homosexuality but by no means is it EVER right to bring such a horrible assault on people like that. I literally have tears in my eyes as I write this, I hope every one of the survivors is stronger after today, I pray that they are all blessed in everything they do.

    There used to be a time when, if someone else was living a lifestyle contrary to your own, you'd simply say "well that's not my cup of tea" and walk on...
     
  2. asher

    asher So Did We

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    To note, this is the worst mass shooting in US history.
     
  3. DistinguishedPapyrus

    DistinguishedPapyrus SS.org Regular

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    Yes, I've read that somewhere too...
     
  4. Necris

    Necris Bonitis.

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    Seeing republicans who have attended conferences organized by pastors who advocate the death penalty for homosexuality (I'm looking at you, Huckabee and Cruz), supported and continue to support bills which discriminate against gay, lesbian and transgender individuals and demonize law-abiding citizens for their gender identity or sexuality now sending "thoughts and prayers" to the families of those murdered today and declaring they "stand in solidarity" with the people of Orlando enrages me.
     
  5. sezna

    sezna undermotivated

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    As a Texan, I am actually completely repulsed by our politician's response. I also don't know a single person in Texas who actually agrees with our governor's positions in general, or Lt. governer, or any of them, and yet our politicians remain crazy.


    I am also a Christian. It is not a comfortable place to be when your religion is used as a political tool to show how much you "care" about tragedies.
     
  6. Mordacain

    Mordacain 1-watt brigadier

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    "Thoughts and prayers" piss me right the .... off because that is all they ever offer.

    I'll take policy change and enforcement, thank you very much.:nuts:

    I'm dreading seeing the NRA's comments on this one.:wallbash:
     
  7. QuantumCybin

    QuantumCybin Lost In Thought

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    I'm from Florida as well, and it's just sad how almost numb we're getting from seeing all these shootings. And as awful as it is to say, and I don't mean anyone's life is more valuable than the next, but FIFTY people is a lot. That's just awful. Such a needless loss of life. If this doesn't prompt some actual change in gun laws here, what will? Not even picking a side on the issue, I think we can all agree that this will prompt some type of discussion about gun control in a big way.
     
  8. Science_Penguin

    Science_Penguin SS.org Regular

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    "Another" he says...

    That's not a slam against you, its just, the fact that we have to call this the latest (and worst) of MANY mass shootings in this country... This is getting tiring, I gotta say. I worry that at some point I'm going to hear about a mass shooting in the future and my reaction will be "Oh... yeah, we were due for another of those..."

    And as if that wasn't enough, there's the politics... the line from Shakespeare about "a tale of sound and fury signifying nothing" perfectly sums that up.
     
  9. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    That's what we said after Newtown. I'm not sure what would be a sufficient level of atrocity to actually cause a change in American gun laws at this point.
     
  10. ramses

    ramses Guitar/pizza regular

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    Regulations can indeed be improved.

    However, note that the weapons and ammunition used in France's last terrorist attack are fully illegal there.
     
  11. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

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    I'm starting to prickle at some of the reactions I'm seeing to this on social media and another forum I frequent.

    When extremists shot up Paris and Brussels, the world showed solidarity with them, even if only through trite things like French or Belgian flag overlays on facebook pictures. There were notifications popping up all over of how to donate and help. We had the whole "Je suis Charlie" thing.

    When someone does it in the US, though? "Christ, another shooting in the US? Get your sh!t together, America."

    It's like how tragic something is hinges on how the shooter was able to obtain the weapons used. These are the sorts of interactions that seem to be taking place in some people's minds:

    "A terrorist murdered dozens of people in my country!"
    "Were the weapons obtained legally or illegally?"
    "Illegally..."
    "Oh, that's awful! We stand in solidarity with you! Is there anything we can do to help?"

    Vs

    "A terrorist murdered dozens of people in my country!"
    "Were the weapons obtained legally or illegally?"
    "Legally..."
    "Ugh, again? Them's the breaks. Maybe get your act together next time."
     
  12. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    Cross posting from MG

    We'll see what the final assessment on motive ends up being. I sympathize with the plight of the gay community and what it's gotta be like to have people target you just for your sexual preference, but it sounds like this is the type of nutter that was ready to take it out on any liberated, western type of demographic (much like the Paris attacks on a metal show).

    I personally think the free passes for excuses to not make any substantive changes to prevent this from happening or at least in limiting casualties have all been used up. Whether that's directly related to access to guns, the better access to mental health support we've been promised, weeding out extremists living among us or just helping in police response and rediness. The frequency of these events and the way people can be outwardly dangerous and steamroll through masses of innocent people is unsettling and I'm open minded enough to believe there's more than one way to deal with it, yet so far we've done nothing.
     
  13. DistinguishedPapyrus

    DistinguishedPapyrus SS.org Regular

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    On the whole gun control issue, here's an interesting page to flip through... lots of information here
    Guns in the United States
     
  14. SD83

    SD83 SS.org Regular

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    I was shocked to read about this when I got up yesterday, maybe even more shocked that it took a loooong time to make the headlines. Headlines were all soccer, soccer, soccer, some shooting in Florida with 50 victims, soccer, soccer... the European Championship seems to be more important than the worst case of mass murder in US history to many. What's even more disgusting is to read that just a few hours later, tons of people are apparently using Twitter to state how delighted they were to hear that some gay people got shot, even calling the killer a hero and wishing for the cop who shot him to burn in hell. And it's not just Westboro Baptist Church... to me, that is not an opinion, that hateful an attitude should be a crime as well. Who anyone loves is no ones business except for those directly involved. To some degree, I can understand hate when you have been rejected or cheated, and in the later case I'd say a slap in the face is justified, but it stops there. Why you would hate people you have never seen in your life for whom they have sex with is entirely beyond me. And if "God hates fags", they'll burn in hell anyways, so you got something to laugh about all your life, why kill anyone?

    As for the guns: If I was living in a place where basically everyone has a gun and where criminals are expected to shoot at you, lest they be shot by you, I'd want to have a gun. I would want to live in a place where (almost) no one has a gun and where criminals are expected to run from you, lest the police you're about to call put them into jail. Which is pretty much where I live. But if you want to kill people, you'll get a gun, ban or not. Right wing terrorist Anders Breivik shot 69 kids in Norway with legally obtained weapons, islamistic terrorists in Paris shot 130 with illegaly obtained weapons... I don't believe a ban on guns will affect mass shootings or terrorist attack in any way (and yes, I don't for a second believe the "good guy with a gun" myth). But as far as I know, the majority of gunshot related deaths don't make the news because it's only one person who dies at a time. According to wikipedia (which I know is not the best source) the USA has 10.5 victims per 100.000 inhabitants (3.3 of which in cass of murder). France? 2.8 (0.2). Germany 1.01 (0.07). That is about 10/50 times less. That's were it might make a difference.
     
  15. UnderTheSign

    UnderTheSign SS.org Regular

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    Eh, it's common reaction based on people's perception of the country. It's just like how there were posts on this attack, the ones in Brussels and Paris but not on the ones in Turkey and other non-western countries.
     
  16. Ibanezsam4

    Ibanezsam4 SS.org Regular

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    this has more in common with Boston Marathon bombing than it does with Newtown.

    unlike mass shootings that the title references, there is an obvious motive here. we don't have to ask why he did it. we know why.

    his religion taught him homosexuality is wrong, he was angry and probably bipolar, he saw justification for his beliefs in a radical movement in the Middle East.

    he is part of what will become a growing trend globally; lone wolf small cell acts in populated places. ISIS is moving away from the military ground strategy after increased pressure from the west to push them back. Their armies can't win, but their soldiers can.

    and here's the rub: ISIS doesn't need their soldiers to formally pledge with them; so long as they can take credit. Having no physical ties or evidence makes this harder for law enforcement to foil
     
  17. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

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    I get that it's based on their perceptions of the country, and that's what I have a problem with here. Like dude pointed out above, this isn't like the other shootings. If it was another school shooting, or another lunatic shooting up a mall/church/theater/whatever, then I would get it. It'd still be insensitive, but it'd at least be understandable to react like "Well what do you expect?"

    This, though, isn't just another one of those shootings. This is the same sort of thing that's been happening in Europe over the past couple years. You know, over in Europe where gun laws are more strict and shootings happen less often. It's the sort of thing that's going to happen whether or not gun laws are strict. That means looking at the US and reacting like "Oh look, another mass shooting in the US :rolleyes:" isn't really fair.

    People are letting their perceptions of and biases against the country override the truth of what happened here. It's not something that would've been prevented by European-style gun laws, just like those same laws didn't stop the attacks in Paris or Belgium.

    Now, I'm definitely not saying that I don't think the US has a gun problem. It does, and I firmly believe something needs to be done (though I'm fairly sure nothing will be done, as per usual). I'm definitely not making the "criminals will get guns anyway, so why make laws stronger?" argument here.

    I'm just saying that this isn't "just another shooting" that people can roll their eyes at and write off as a consequence of living in the US. Instead of standing in solidarity and expressing support like so many Americans did when horrific acts of violent extremism took place in Europe, the reactions I keep seeing from non-Americans have been nonchalant at best and accusatory at worst. That upsets me.

    Too much internet for me today, I think. :lol:
     
  18. ThomasUV777

    ThomasUV777 SS.org Regular

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  19. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    You *think* you know why. Conveniently, the shooter is dead, so he can't contradict you.
     
  20. Chokey Chicken

    Chokey Chicken mouth breather

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    Not that I'm belittling it, because it is tragic, it is just more commonplace in the US. The same way that when we get bombed, people go nuts, but when it happens in the Middle East its a sorta "I'm not surprised" kind of thing. And just like overseas, we seem to be very content doing nothing to work towards bettering it. So yeah, it ....ing sucks and shouldn't have happened. Doesn't make it unsurprising. I really do hope real change gets underway. I'm at the point where I'm trying to make myself numb to it so I'm not constantly depressed over senseless loss of life.
     

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