And Your First Potential 2016 US Presidential Candidate Is!!!!

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by groverj3, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. leftyguitarjoe

    leftyguitarjoe Correct-handed

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    As a Sanders supporter, yet a realist (i.e. pessiment) I think Trump may very well win this election. He is dominating in the primaries. In a Trump vs Clinton ticket, I can see Trump winning.

    The DNC has shown that its clearly nowhere near neutral. They are doing everything they can to sabotage Sanders and are going to succeed because thats how the world works. The half of the democratic voters that support Sanders are going to be very upset and say fvck it like young liberals always do. Republicans are seeing record turnouts and they love Trump.

    We're all screwed. Our system is broken at every level and its our own fault.
     
  2. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    Citation needed. Seriously, the way that Sanders has risen from a "who?" candidate in May 2015 to being a credible, if still somewhat long-shot, threat to Hillary Clinton for the nomination in Feb 2016 suggests that if the DNC is actually trying to sabotage him, they've amazingly failed. Is it so impossible that a majority of the party electorate actually prefers Clinton?
     
  3. jeremyb

    jeremyb SS.org Regular

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    The interesting thing about the nominations is they have to be a republican party member and they seem incredibly right winged as a general rule, so you have to appeal to the nutters to get the nomination, but then they'll need to reign in the madness a LOT to get back to a point where the average voter will vote for them.... a world with Trump in control of the US military, madness, I would expect a coup.
     
  4. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    You don't think the public outing and banning of Sanders from the DNC mailing list just before the first debate was a wee bit of shenanigans?
     
  5. Captain Butterscotch

    Captain Butterscotch SS.org Regular

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    Even higher ups in the DNC weren't saying very good things about DWS' obvious bias and the debate scheduling.
     
  6. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    https://news.vice.com/article/the-final-1700-hillary-clinton-emails-were-just-released-and-one-was-not?utm_source=vicenewsfb

    I'm not personally a huge fan of the email scandal (I've mentioned that in the past) mostly because on the surface it seems so insignificant, but working in the tech industry appearances and reality rarely coincide. Just because it doesn't seem like a big deal doesn't make it so.

    This guy made a fair point about the difference between your average american and an elite committing this sort of crime (and whether you agree about it's significance it absolutely was a crime):

    It honestly rings very true about both Wall Street and our politicians. Couple that with her overall lack of transparency, and inconsistencies, over the decades and I really don't see what people see in her. She may be better than a Republican, but she's a piss poor candidate. I fail to see how overlooking her failings makes her the better candidate simply because y'all consider Bernie an idealist. I personally agree with Randy on that anyhow. The further left we start the discussion the further left the result ends up being. When Democrats start at a moderate position we end up with Republican policy or incredibly washed down legislation.

    I also resent Hillary's PR/followers attempt at branding people who dislike her and choose Bernie as essentially misogynists with this 'Bernie Bro' BS (The last time I checked we are allowed to decide who we support in this country :shrug:). I'd gladly support a woman candidate if one I felt I could back were running. If Elizabeth Warren, Nina Turner or Jill Stein were running in her place I'd vote for them in a heartbeat. It's got nothing to do with gender and everything to do with integrity. That's about as gross as the assertion that women are voting for Hillary strictly because of their gender. It's likely true for some people (and vice versa), but it's also likely not true for her base at large. Of course, one of her endorsers insinuating that women who don't vote for Hillary are betraying their gender and just going where the boys are doesn't exactly help that particular situation. I'm all for landmark changes, but not for the sake of making a landmark change alone. I don't participate in race/gender politics.

    [EDIT]

    The scandal also brings out some hard truths for some people as well about just how two-faced she really is as far as public promises and actual intention:

    Hillary Clinton Pushes Colombia Free Trade Agreement In Latest Email Dump

    Her word means so little...
     
  7. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    If you're state primary election is today get out and vote folks, whomever you support. Lets show these politicians at least for the time being that we as a nation are watching and taking notice. The primary for both parties will really set the tone for the general election and is probably more significant than even the general as it currently stands.

    Shouldn't take anyone very long since primaries have a pretty low turnout most of the time. I walked in and out at my voting station.
     
  8. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    Source? It wasn't in the comments on the article you linked.


    I doubt that the free trade agreement that the Bush administration was pushing on Congress in 2008 included this: https://ustr.gov/uscolombiatpa/labor. If the terms of the deal changed to provide better protections for Colombian labor, then I don't think it's inconsistent for Clinton to support it.
     
  9. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    Show of hands: how many people remembered that this event had happened before Randy brought it up? And didn't *both* candidates gloss over the whole affair at that same debate?
     
  10. Alex Kenivel

    Alex Kenivel Psycho, dont engage

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  11. leftyguitarjoe

    leftyguitarjoe Correct-handed

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    The head of the DNC worked on Hilary's last campaign, the debate debacle, and now the DNC's #2 quitting to endorse Bernie.
     
  12. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    The first shows only that American politics draws from a limited pool of top-tier talent, the same as other industries. I don't assume that something nefarious is happening if I see that a prominent associate-dean-level librarian has taken a dean-of-the-library position at a different university. Second: what "debacle" are you referring to? Third: Tulsi Gabbard *said herself* that DNC politics didn't have anything to do with her resignation to support Sanders. Don't believe me? Tulsi Gabbard: DNC politics did not factor into Bernie Sanders endorsement - POLITICO
     
  13. asher

    asher So Did We

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    No more effective than the GOP staring from "BURN IT TO THE GROUND" on... literally every single thing relating to a D getting something it looks like it wants.

    Bernie could actually be the prodigy scion Ur-Socialist genetic experiment with genes from Marx and Trotsky themselves, and he'd be facing exactly the same level of opposition from Day 1 that Hillary would. And that O'Malley would... because they're (D).

    I really, really wish this weren't the case. They might more personally hate Hillary but I don't think the effective levels of scorched-earth obstruction change one bit.
     
  14. Randy

    Randy Ooh, Degrasse Tyson-son Super Moderator

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    I don't disagree with you, but I still think there's a difference (when working with extremists) between starting negotiations from your ideal position and starting negotiations from the middle. :2c:
     
  15. asher

    asher So Did We

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    Fair enough :yesway:

    ed: also, FOR SHAME, ME. Never got my voting changed to be here in VA, I'm still absentee CA. My vote would be a lot better served trying to keep ....heads out of State stuff here :wallbash:

    ed2: I think we actually agree about where we want to start and how we want it to go, I just realistically don't think it matters here at all.
     
  16. leftyguitarjoe

    leftyguitarjoe Correct-handed

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    I think Tulsi has to keep her slate clean for her own persidential run. I like her alot.
     
  17. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    That actually begs the question of whether legislative negotiations would begin at Sanders' ideal position: since the president can't propose legislation directly, it's a matter of what he could convince Congresscritters to sponsor as bills or amendments. I have no idea how much willingness there is in the Congressional Democratic caucus to support Sanders' policy positions, either now or following whatever downticket effects might occur as a result of a Sanders victory in the general, but that's a substantial limit on what ideas get introduced into legislation in the first place. President Sanders could always, of course, threaten to veto any legislation that doesn't meet his minimum progressive standard, but if he doesn't have Congressional support among Democrats for those policy positions, that's going to be very easily spun by Republicans as "obstructionism!" (And they should know from obstructionism, amirite?)
     
  18. asher

    asher So Did We

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    If Bernie is POTUS I really don't see him having much Democratic support problems, TBH. Except maybe for something pie-in-the-sky about health care, because insurance companies have their fingers everywhere.
     
  19. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    You understand that you've basically just said that you think she's lying on a major media outlet to protect her political future, and that you're OK with that.
     
  20. celticelk

    celticelk Enflamed with prayer

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    I do. A lot of those Dem Congresscritters come from relatively conservative districts - either closely split between R/D, or where the overall D population leans more conservative, or both - and they're going to be concerned about what their constituents will think about policies that might, for example, raise their taxes. (I say this as someone who would be perfectly willing to pay higher taxes for better government services, even if they're mostly going to people who are not me.)
     

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