A question about post production..

Discussion in 'Recording Studio' started by Hohomaru, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. Hohomaru

    Hohomaru SS.org Regular

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    I guess this is geared more toward the compositional side of things and the mindset of those who've worked with bands in a studio environment. When it comes to creating big melodic intros or outro's (Be it VST instruments or big reverby guitar swells) to a song, do you have that idea before hand or after the song is recorded? In the past, i've wasted a ton of time trying to mold some kind of intro sequence only for it to sound shoehorned when the actual music kicks in. I'm just curious as to how others go about it.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I'm not sure I'd call this "post production," because the few times I've done stuff like this, I'd 100% had it in my head in the writing and recording phase of the project, and this has been part of the composition from the get-go. As such, I'm tracking anything I want to do like this as part of the song, mixing it as part of the song, etc etc.
     
  3. Hohomaru

    Hohomaru SS.org Regular

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    The guy i'm currently working with refers to this part of the recording process as "post production" which is why i called it as such. He's helping produce the EP i'm in the process of doing.

    Whenever I bring up these ideas he says that we'll worry about that in post production. I've not worked with many different engineers, so i figured i'd ask the question here and see how others go about it.

    Thanks for the reply though!
     
  4. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    It may not be 100% finalized, but you should have an idea of what you're doing beforehand otherwise of course it will sound shoehorned in...because you shoehorned it in there, lol. If its lead-ins and tails of songs, all of that stuff (IMHO, of course) should be part and parcel of the composition process. Intros/Outros/Interludes should all serve a purpose like any other part of the song/arrangement. Stuff I'd consider what you're calling post-production (I don't think that's quite the term) would be like adding a pad synth under a chorus somewhere, or throwing a wild delay on a snare hit to occupy some silence, little accent stuff that doesn't really change the composition. I've seen a few bands recently who have had intros and interludes in their sets live that didn't make any sense, have anything to do with song, were often completely melodically/harmonically contrasting to what they preceded, and it doesn't sound great. It sounds like someone got high and made a bunch of pretty sounds with a delay pedal and that's what got used for the intros/outros, etc.
     
  5. KingAenarion

    KingAenarion Resident Studio Nerd

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    "We'll fix it in the mix"...

    Big red flag to me.
     
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  6. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I've worked on some projects that did this kind of thing after the fact and the results were not great to my ears. One CD we worked on had a random 'interlude' track added in that was probably fine when taken on it's own, but it sounded so disconnected from the rest of the album and didn't fit at all. And it was added at the last minute by the band leader guy, without anyone really knowing. "Hey guys, CDs done, here's your copy!" Random electronic bit appears in the middle. What......?
    On the next project, I was the one doing all the "engineering" so I was able to get ahead of those things and incorporate the weird interlude stuff into the songs, make sure the mix/balance wasn't completely off, transitions aren't abrupt, etc.

    If your sound guy isn't on the same page as you in terms of what you think needs to be incorporated right away into the production, that's a red flag to me too. Either he's ignoring the vision of the client, or there's a miscommunication somewhere, and either case is bad.
     
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  7. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    Unless your engineer is in the band, or he's a paid "producer" he shouldn't be having much say in the compositions anyways. If you have songs that weren't written with interludes/intros/outros, do you really need to add them, or is something to do because you've heard it other places? Don't just do it to do it, and don't just tack something on to fill space, or because some other band has that element. Those bands more than likely constructed those components to fit the record/song, not just to have synths or whatever.
     
  8. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Yeah, he's wrong.
     
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  9. JohnIce

    JohnIce Singlecoil Enthusiast

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    He's wrong indeed :lol: Post-production is a film industry term anyway, it's not really applicable to the back-and-forth way you can write, record and mix music in a DAW these days. There is no post-production, just production.

    The intro is the first thing a listener hears and Google statistics show most people listen to 7-15 seconds of a new song before they decide if it's worth their time or not. If you can't grab someone's interest in the first few seconds you may not get a chance to do so later in the song. To me, that says two things: a) Intros matter, and b) Intros may not be necessary at all if they don't add something important. I've definitely noticed intros getting shorter in most music, it's like people want to get to the point of the song a little quicker these days.
     
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  10. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Good lord, that's a terrifying statistic. :lol: I'm just getting into gear writing my next album - I'll have to be sure to make sure that whatever I end up looking at as the "single" that I'll do a teaser release with starts off with a bang, but... man. Attention spans these days...
     
  11. JohnIce

    JohnIce Singlecoil Enthusiast

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    Heh yes. That does account for all the people who click the wrong video or click it just to copy the link etc., so in reality it might be closer to 30 seconds or something. Either way, the old adage "Don't bore us, get to the chorus!" gets truer every day :)

    Personally, I quite like songs that don't put a bunch of filler at the start of the song. Unless you have a really cool idea for an intro, something signature that really announces the song, then you really don't need them.
     
  12. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Potentially good idea: Keep you intro as a separate track and just use the whole gapless playback thing to connect everything. People who want the whole experience can just start playing from track one, people who just want the song with no filler can skip right to track two. Best of both worlds. You get your intro, people get to the song quickly if they want.
     
  13. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    I started my album off with a 1:30 fingerstyle delta blues acoustic riff, run through a 1930s record simulator, before segueing into a heavier song bumping the same motif up to a midtempo low-B groove. I almost split it like this, for an album almost no one will hear I don't think it matters... but if I were to do it again, then yeah, maybe I should have.
     
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  14. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    I was trying to tell my bandmates that when we were working on our last album, but got voted down for "leaving the songs how they are live" which means some songs have 15-30 second creepy sound samples THEN instrumental intros/lead ins. I think drags, but it wasn't fully my decision.
     
  15. Descent

    Descent SS.org Regular

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    Post production...lol, this guy is clueless. That means it will be added after mastering.

    Make sure your intro is locked in before mixing, or at least before mastering.
     
  16. BLD

    BLD Fast Is Fun!

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    As someone who has taken both approaches, I have always had better results recording all the ideas first. Sometimes I’m not sure if I like an intro, or an idea, but I’ve learned to go with it and re-record if needed. Writing a song without the intro, and adding it later always sounds forced in my case. Plus it takes a lot more work if I have to re-record other tracks before or after (sometimes you just need to alter a palm mute, or cymbal crash/choke)...

    My recording mentor was always happy to add eq, reverb and delay post recording when I first started. He was ok with dropping in on a track to fix a mistake even when I wasn’t (before cut and paste, lol) but he always encouraged me to record the full idea just to create the space and transitions (even if you were going to re-record that part later). Hard to describe, but you can really tell when a song was recorded as one piece vs being spliced together post...
     

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