9 String Tuning

Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by Gizmo Skatoon, Dec 14, 2017.

Preferred 9 String Tuning

  1. Standard

    25.0%
  2. Drop E

    18.8%
  3. Bass Hybrid

    6.3%
  4. Other

    50.0%
  1. EverDream

    EverDream SS.org Regular

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    I'm sorry for going missing for 2 months, my mental health has been very up and down the last 2 years, I was taking care of stuff, something upset me, put me into a dark depression, and every time I was almost back out of it something else upset me and put me right back before I even felt like coming onto here to post my video. This is the first time I've actually felt like coming on here since I last posted what I said, like literally today is the first time I've felt up to it. I've really been struggling to be happy at all, and have been failing miserably at getting it to stay. But today I finally felt up to coming on here and so here I am, and now I'll post the video for you to see. It's nothing amazing, but you were interested so I uploaded it for you, so here it is:



    I have used bass strings before on guitar and they do sound dull, and yes these Kalium guitar of the same thickness of a bass string sound much clearer. Now a .118 Kalium still doesn't sound as clear as a .059 gauge guitar string or whatever, but it sounds much clearer than a .118 bass guitar string does. .098 sounds about right for C#, I'm not up to calculating stuff just yet, but I will as soon as I feel up to it. I have Kalium .098 on my 6-string baritone (30" scale length) tuned to C# (or drop B) and it feels right to me. I forgot what your scale length was, but on 28" to 30" with a .098 Kalium at low C# is a good starting point to try for sure.

    I had no problems ordering from them, they have a youtube channel I think where they talk about stuff, they seem like really awesome guys, so yes they are good. The strings don't come in the usual tiny envelopes from bigger string companies, they come in a tall plastic sleeve that is string length, and it is lightly coiled into a pretty big envelope (if I remember correctly), and when you remove it from the envelope it uncoils right away into a straight string in a plastic sleeve that you can hang on a hook or something until you are ready to use it, which they recommend you do as soon as it arrives in the mail, because coiling isn't good for strings, and is only done lightly just for shipping reasons (so that the shipping doesn't become too expensive), so you can see just from that right there, that they are very good guys who care about stuff!

    And about what you said about me knowing my stuff (about the harmonic stuff)... thanks! I learned from websites (don't remember where, it must have been like 10 years ago at least when I read about it) because I was interested, and yeah this forum has people like me who know stuff that the average musician wouldn't know you are exactly right about that, I agree, and that is exactly why I love this forum so much!

    I would no doubt be on here more often if I were more successful in keeping my mental health good more consistently. I really give it my best always, but I have mental disorders and trauma that make things difficult, so if I fail over and over, it's because whatever is disordered in my brain is limiting my abilities to succeed. Putting mind over matter is a thing a person can do, but when a disorder in the brain causes a chemical reaction to a certain trigger, the mind kind of becomes disoriented, and is not functioning correctly so as to overcome matter, so basically all I can do is my best, and if the disorder disables me from succeeding very often, then that's just how it is, I can't do any more than my best, lol. I wish I was able to be more successful in controlling my mind. My disorder is tainting my mind's perception of life so that the beauty of it is overshadowed by dysphoria and apathy, and it's a shame.

    Once I successfully push the shadow out of the way and start enjoying the beauty it seems not long goes by before the shadow is back in the way again. It seems I end up having to spend more time pushing the shadow out of the way than enjoying the beauty it is hiding. I really wish scientists or whatever would start discovering cures to some disorders and not just medicine that just makes you drowsy and gives you bad side effects, really. I know they are doing their best, but I wish for them to come upon some breakthrough or something soon, so that me and millions of others can start enjoying the beauty of life more often than having to push aside dark shadows cast by our disorders, when we are doing the best we can (I know there are people who might not be doing their best, but I'm speaking of those who really are doing their best).

    Ok sorry about that little vent about my problems, but I just want you (and anyone else reading this) to understand why I may not log into this site for long periods of time, at times. It's never that I have "ghosted" people, or are ignoring them, so just remember that please everyone. Thanks! Anyway I'm very grateful that I feel good enough today to come post on here finally, and now all you who wanted to see my video can see it now up above in this post. Bye for now! :wavey:
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  2. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    I’m surprised I missed this thread!

    I currently have one 9 and two 10s, all in standard tuning. At he 30” length I’m using (and liking) .118” for C#1. Then, for the G#0 I have .142” at 30” (which feels too wobbly) and .150” at 32”. I have a .158” from Kalium I’m going to put on the 30” for G#0 to give it some more beefiness.

    Unfortunately, going low is all about compromises, just like going high. The strings are either too thick feeling or too wobbly. For me, the sweet spot is 8 strings at 27” on up to about 28.625” (on the bass side). That seems to be the perfect blend of everything on the low end.
     
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  3. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Wow. Thanks so much for posting that clip! I'm really sorry about your struggles. There are a few threads on here that tend to cheer me up from time to time, but I'm a bit of an oddball. I myself struggled with depression years ago, but for me, something one day just snapped and I managed to pull myself out of it. Although that base feeling never really goes away, I'm happy to say that the angle of that slippery slope hasn't put me into a "hopeless free fall" ever since then. I really wish I knew how I did it, but I honestly have no idea - it's not like I wasn't trying before I got on top of it or even that I tried any harder or anything in particular happened.

    To address the tone in the clip, IMO, those lowest string notes do sound really floppy, but they still ring out clear enough in that context. Maybe tuning that low, you just have to get yourself used to that sort of thing.
     
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  4. EverDream

    EverDream SS.org Regular

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    Thank you for your reply and kind words! Yeah I'm doing my best, it's only a matter of time before I snap out of it, but I have faith that I will eventually just like it did with you. The mind is a complex thing, there's no way to know how something like that happens, where something just snaps you out of it.

    About the string tone... the strings will sound that way unless you get majorly thick strings and then at that point they sound way too fat and dull, I'd rather have this level of floppiness and some brightness than super tight but dull as f*ck. So yes you hit it on the nail with that last sentence you said... you just have to get yourself used to that sort of thing. And yes the context is the key, if it's used in the right context, that's what makes it sound good (to my ears anyway). For me if the tone is too dark and bassey, like often is when the strings are really huge (to my ears), then it doesn't matter how tight it sounds.

    If it doesn't sound like a guitar string then I might as well go play a bass, lol, so yeah it needs to be thin enough to still have enough harmonic content in the tone to sound like a guitar and not a short scale bass, lol. I'm sure you understand what I'm saying. It's a compromise the lower you go, and for me this is my preferred compromise at this note. So floppy sounding, yes maybe... but too dark and bassey, no, but it would be (to me) if I used any thicker strings, so this amount of "floppy sound" will have to exist at notes this low until someone invents a guitar string that can tune that low at higher tension without needing to be as thick! lol

    Anyway... thanks for watching the video and replying!
     
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  5. Krauthammer

    Krauthammer SS.org Regular

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    I had a 92825 agile fanned. The lowest I could get that was still comfortable to play was a low D1, using a .108 gauge. I went .116 to try for C1 had too much of a "round" sound. Not "guitar" sounding i guess, didn't like it. What worked for me was having a higher string, I couldn't get anything to sound useful past D1. Low to high E A D G C F A D G. That higher string will mess with you for sure, but surprisingly useful!
     
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  6. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    Great tuning for that scale. Try altering the M3 interval position if having a high is messing with you. So F Bb D G on top. Makes it like 9 C# standard capo'd up at the 3rd fret instead :) Before moving to perfect 4ths, I actually preferred the normal tuning you had typed. But this adjusted version is nice for retaining familiar shapes on top.
     
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  7. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    Been playing about with a monstrous 39-37" design idea..
    There are a few things I've been wanting to try properly for a while:
    -A superlong scale guitar especially for super clarity in the 8 string E range
    -Minor 3rds tuning which only has the range of a 6 string over 9 strings
    -Low 9 string tunings with scale lengths that I know will make me happy using them
    -31 note per octave microtonal tuning @bostjan !

    I've settled on and templated these scale lengths for a few reasons and am very happy with results.
    If I put a 31 microtonal fretboard on there, an extremely long scale will be very beneficial in making fret spacing more manageable.
    Whilst it would make fret stretches hard on such a long scale (manageable for bass, but not really a lot of typical guitar stuff), the minor 3rds tuning that this guitar would primarily be intended for, allows all regular 1 hand piano voicings to be played in pretty much a 3 fret span (bring on piano covers!) The tuning results in more vertical stretching than horizontal. This is also advantageous in making 31 microtonal tuning more manageable as I'll have less frets to read across if not stretching far.
    Tuned in C in minor thirds, it's basically the exact range of a standard 6 string bass guitar. This allows ALL WOUND STRINGS which is something I've wanted to do on a guitar for a while haha.
    Up the fretboard a bit, the guitar pretty much translates to a baritone 6 string guitar range at the same time it reaches normal guitar scale lengths - so also 6 string bass sounds pretty low in terms of range, it still reaches as high as a baritone 6 string guitar if I go for say 30 fret range instead of 24.
    The instrument could also function as a regular 4ths tuned 9 string, with D4b around the limit of the high string pitch (comparable to somewhere between high G and G# on 25.5) - putting us at low A0 on the bottom end. Pretty much the limit of what I'd want in a low tuned guitar, and a collection of pitches I am used to reading on my low strings as I typically tune everything a step down. Ideally I'd like it to be a bit higher - which is lucky, as like I said - such a long scale will be impractical for normal guitar playing. So in all 4ths, I'll have that extra low range, but probably focus my playing a bit closer to the 31" area where it becomes a standard C# tuned 9 string :) I think I'd be quite comfortable with many common guitar shapes up to 34" or so though.

    All this lines up very well mentally for me and I'm quite happy with the size of my template I've printed. (You were right @bostjan - 31/octave is a TON OF FRETS to look at haha. They are bigger than I expected though which is a good sign)
    I've listed proposed rough gauges and tensions below!


    c1 .100 danw == 28.19#
    e1b .082 danw == 28.29#
    g1b .070 danw == 29.34#
    a1 .058 danw == 28.43#
    c2 .050 danw == 28.62#
    e2b .042 danw == 28.84#
    g2b .034 danw == 26.92#
    a2 .028 danw == 25.51#
    c3 .024 danw == 26.35#

    a0 .120 danw == 26.15#
    d1 .090 danw == 29.58#
    g1 .065 danw == 28.55#
    c2 .048 danw == 26.84#
    f2 .036 danw == 27.33#
    b2b .026 danw == 25.41#
    e3b .018 dapl == 25.31#
    a3b .013 dapl == 23.21#
    d4b .010 dapl == 24.14#
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
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  8. EverDream

    EverDream SS.org Regular

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    Wow, I'm very interested in seeing something like that made! How will a 31 note per octave microtonal tuning work for playing equal tempered notes though? I just checked on a calculator and the only note that will be (exactly) the same as an equal tempered note will be the open strings and it's octaves! Was the idea that... the other 30 notes include close enough approximations to the other 11 equal tempered notes? The equal tempered minor second will be either around 22 cents flat or 16 cents sharp for example, that's not close enough IMO to not sound out of key!

    Unless this is purely as an experiment, and not meant to be played with other equal tempered musicians, lol, then whatever it doesn't matter then, but if you did 24 notes per octave you'd have all 12 equal tempered notes and the notes exactly between each 50 cents +/-! Or if you did 36 notes per octave, that would have all 12 equal tempered notes with the 1/3 of a note and 2/3 of a note between each equal tempered note, but both would include all 12 equal tempered notes. How come 31 and not 24 or 36, I'm just curious what the theory is behind that choice for playing music?
     
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  9. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    If you check out the microtonal metal thread in music discussion there is some discussion on this recently - bostjans last reply goes over it well: http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/microtonal-metal.202859/page-23
    Firstly these tunings are all still 'equal temperaments' because they split the octave into equal parts, so as opposed to unequal microtonal tunings the frets are still evenly spaced and everything is equally transposable.
    But yes you are right the only note that lines up exactly is the octave . 2nd, 4th, 5th, minor 7th would sound fine too within a few cents. However yes it most definitely would not work played alongside 12EDO - I will make music in 31EDO with this guitar and a 31EDO bass (maybe this guitar? :lol: ) or more likely fretless bass (I already play fretless bass).
    However the decision of 31 rather than something the contains 12 such as 24 or 36 is actually because it sounds a lot more ordinary for western harmony - because it's what is called a meantone tuning based on producing good thirds. Simply put, the thirds of 12EDO are around 15 cents out of tune (compared to pure Just Intonation tuning that strings and choirs continue to use and all other music before Equal Temperament and its predecessors used) in either direction. 31EDO fixes them very well (10 cents better on the minor third, and perfect on the major third). This translates to the sixths as their inversions too. The fifth is perfectly usable though 12EDO is better (702 as the goal, 12 = 700, 31 = 697) The Wikipedia page will show a bunch of intervals that are very close to their perfect Just Intonation tunings. So essentially any isolated common chord in this tuning sounds more in tune than its 12EDO counterpart. Yes ascending a scale etc spaces the tones slightly differently but it is quite minimal. You can hear a difference though giving a slightly unusual flavour at first yes (though mostly when harmonized - a single scale run is barely noticeably different - might be interesting to cover some purely single note + powerchord based metal and see if anyone notices haha). And of course you have access to all the other small movements that the inbetween notes provide. Notes such as the 116 cent minor 2nd sound very pure ontop of a 9th chord, for other example, as again they are closer to purer tuning ratios. So essentially I settled on this tuning because I am not happy with the thirds of 12EDO, want to experiment with microtonal music in general, and 31 is agreed upon at being incredibly good for common western harmony. There are a few EDOs we might have settled on when moving to an Equal Tempered system, such as 19 and 31, but we ended up with 12 probably because it's smaller and easier to handle :) I spent some time playing about with 19 and considering that too, but found it quite a lot weirder sounding in general compared to 12EDO as whilst the chords are again very good the other steps are a bit wonkier than what we are used to. I do want to retain the ability to produce quite a normal sound, as I'm keen to bring microtonality in metal to a wider audience (If I ever get any music released haha).
    31 doubles in function as an almost Just Intonation tuning for many pitches, allowing familiar basic harmony to sound very pleasant, whilst retaining the symmetry and transposition ability of an equal temperament, and access to finer microtonal gestures. Compared to 24EDO which gives us exactly what we are used to but duplicated 50 cents away, which produces pretty much only some very unusual intervals.


    Here is something very familiar. It will sound slightly askew and unusual at first, but very familiar - and hopefully you can identify how it is also very pure, lively, and buzzy. Throw on your distortion and play an Em open chord with your G string 15 cents sharp, or an open E major chord with your G string 15 cents flat) for an instant idea :)


    And a more unusual application highlighting very pure access to the overtone series and some more unusual intervals:
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
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  10. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    The 37-39” idea is right along with what I have on my Quake. It’s 37-40”. I’ve got it at C#0, F#0, B0, E1, A1. Over the last couple of years I’ve experimented with G#0 at 30” and 32”, and I’ve tried F#0 at 37”. What I learned, as I’m sure you (Tom) have also figured out, is that at 30”, and especially higher, the span gets so long that there is a need to increase string tension to compensate. I always used to wonder why bassists had higher string tension than guitarists. But, it’s not a choice. Tuning low and using a long scale length requires an increased tension just to feel the same. So what I found really interesting is that there is no difference between a bass or at guitar at those lengths. Like, I am trying to use the thinnest strings on my Quake, but they still have to be basically what is use if I wanted it to be a bass. The same is true of my 32” guitar.

    So for anyone curious about tuning down on a long scale instrument, you will need 30 lbs of tension to feel like a standard guitar with 15-18 lbs of tension.
     
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  11. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    Yup indeed @Hollowway - that's why I've guessed at up to 30lbs for my gauge ideas. Hopefully it'll feel tight enough (I use 18-20lbs on 25.5-28). Durero disagreed about the need for an increase (he has a 36" guitar) and said picking closer to the bridge helps, which is interesting. I don't yet have experience above 30 on a guitar but I did find I wanted 25lbs on a 30" baritone. It's why I mentioned I didn't want to go quite as low as A in the standard 4ths tuning - as I've had basses the same scale and no way would I handle such a significantly smaller gauge as to result in 20-25lbs, regardless of if I was playing it as a guitar. The higher pitched strings you can get away with a lighter feel (perhaps this is a large part of Dureros opinion - he only tunes like 7 string standard B on his 36" - rather than an octave lower!). I have found such low notes just turn to mush without good tension. A 39" C with a .100 should hopefully be very satisfactory for the 3rds tuning- as it's actually very similar to a bass in drop D with regular 100 strings (too loose for me when i'm playing bass, but fine for most haha).
    I was initially looking at 40-37 rather than 39-37 but the microtonal fretting proximity does make me want to reduce nut angle a bit (as barring on an angle with my Vik I certainly tend to cross the fretboard a bit rather than be exactly angled like the frets. I reckon it wouldn't be a huge problem though either way.
     
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  12. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

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    Winspear i like your guitar design idea a lot.

    I have been wanting a lot of strings because i have a tuning system that allows some precisely tuned Just Intonation scales to be played on a normal 12ET guitar (but also quartertones / 24ET). Although the diagrams have disappeared the detail is here http://sevenstring.org/threads/retune-to-play-quartertone-scales-microtonal-beginners-guide.161530/ . It is initially presented for quartertones but later Just Intonation is mentioned http://sevenstring.org/threads/retu...crotonal-beginners-guide.161530/#post-2530509

    The open string intervals are either 3.5 semitones (neutral thirds), or alternating Just Intonation major and minor 3rds. 2 adjacent intervals always add up to a 12ET fifth. It's essentially 2 interlacing 12ET fifths tunings that have varying relative tuning depending on what tonal system you wish to play, one set of strings provides the 12ET notes, the other set provides the microtonal notes.

    I am also interested in smaller intervals to allow closer chord notes, but also because less string retuning is required to hit any possible open tuning, and so reducing the chance of poorly tensioned strings when doing so.

    As for ultralong scales (40+"), this seems ideal for a 2 hand tapping instrument as there is no need to reach the bridge. This would be ideal for a microtonal or extremely low tuned guitar.
     
  13. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

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    Here's a video of a 31 tone baritone guitar, the clean tone and technique on that many frets amazes me.
     
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  14. EverDream

    EverDream SS.org Regular

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    Okay I see, so it's not meant to be played with other 12EDO musicians, gotcha. I like having instruments where I can play along with any song, and all the notes will be the same pitch as the ones in the song, so that's why I was confused as to why you chose 31EDO, because I was coming from that mindset of playing along with other music recorded in 12EDO.

    I've read about different temperaments before, so I know what you are saying... however one thing about Just Intonation that I don't like is the minor 3rd being a ratio of 1.2 (I'm assuming that's what it is right?)... I find that a 1.2 m3 and a 1.25 M3 sound too close in pitch to my ears. The dark and sad aspect to the m3 is just not as intense at 1.2 as it is at 1.1892 on 12EDO when playing a minor scale to my ears, because it's too close to the Major 3rd, especially when the Major 3rd is also now lower than it is in 12EDO. I like when you switch from a Major 3rd to a Minor 3rd the change in feel is drastic, and I just find it's less drastic when it's 1.2 and 1.25 instead of 1.1892 and 1.2599 (as it is in 12EDO).

    That being said, I do think 1.25 M3 sounds better and more natural than 1.2599... so to keep the space between the Minor and Major thirds that I like, I would actually prefer if the Minor 3rd was lowered as well, but certainly not raised. I realize it sounds more natural at 1.2 and everything, but I notice the feel is less Minor sounding to the mood, and that is more important to me than the consonance of the pitches (although both do matter).

    What I actually like more, and I'm not sure what the actual name of this temperament is, is tones that are lower powers of 2 (or octaves if you will, lol) of the harmonic series. So for example... M3 is 1.25 (5th harmonic divided by 4), but m3 is 1.1875 (19th harmonic divided by 16). This works for me because then the m3 is still far enough apart from the M3 where it sounds different enough, and keeps the darker and sadder nature of the m3 interval (to my ears). And since the M2 is in both minor and major scales, the m3 and M2 being closer together is not as much of a problem as m3 and M3 being too close, IMO.

    It'd end up being something like this:

    Root / Octave: 1.0 (1/1)
    Minor 2nd: 1.0625 (17/16)
    Major 2nd: 1.125 (9/8)
    Minor 3rd: 1.1875 (19/16)
    Major 3rd: 1.25 (5/4)
    4th: 1.328125 (85/64) ...I prefer this one over 1.34375 (43/32), as it's closer to the 1.3333... (4/3) 4th of Just Intonation.
    Tritone: 1.40625 (45/32)
    5th: 1.5 (3/2)
    Minor 6th: 1.59375 (51/32)
    Major 6th: 1.6875 (27/16)
    Minor 7th: 1.78125 (57/32)
    Major 7th: 1.875 (15/8)

    I know it's not equal-tempered, but I do prefer this temperament to Just Intonation personally. What temperament is that, where each ratio is an octave of the harmonic series? I forgot the name. So as far as non-equal temperament goes, this is the one I personally like the most.

    But I know what you are saying about the 3rds in 12EDO... When playing a major chord, the Major 3rd does sound a little sharp from the Just Intonation 1.25 (5/4) ratio, and distortion really makes it stand out, you can really hear the dissonant wobble.

    What I'm interested in is hearing a guitar that has the fifth a ratio of 1.5 (3/2) exactly (if it's even possible). Power-chords would sound so awesome! :D ...I just checked on a calculator... 29EDO, 41EDO, and especially 53EDO come close... 53EDO is almost exact (flat by only like 0.068 cents)... 1024EDO... is off (flat) by less than only 0.002 cents!! ...but then you have 1024 notes (and thus... frets! lol) per octave :lol:

    Anyway I'm interested in this idea you've got going here, hopefully we'll all get to see or hear this thing in action one day! :)
     
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  15. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    Such is the beauty of microtonality, the ability to have opinions on fine interval tuning and have the option of utilizing them!
    I fully understand your feelings on the m3 and M3.
    Happy to inform you that 31EDO actually contains a lower m3 too! The ratio 7/6 (266 cents is closely approximated by 270 cents in 31EDO). So I have 7/6 m3, 6/5 m3, 11/9 neutral 3rd, and 5/4 major third all very well approximated :) You said the 310 minor third sounds more consonant, but the 7/6 is also very consonant as it's a low ratio. Any low ratio like this is generally very pleasant sounding. 19/16 (close to 12edo) isn't bad sounding at all that's for sure, because as you've noticed - it's still a fairly low ratio in the harmonic series. But not as consonant as 7/6 or 6/5 indeed.
    The name you are looking for regarding overtone series ratios is Otonal. I like otonal tunings, lots of fun. However the ratios often aren't the most consonant, because you're dealing with higher numbers like 16 and 32 etc quite quickly. However the intervals BETWEEN these intervals of the harmonic series, are what result in ratios such as 7/6, 8/7, 6/5 etc. That was an interesting discovery for me.
    You said you prefer "this temperament to JI" - what you've listed is your own JI tuning, as JI dictates ratio based tunings and there are an infinite amount of ratios :) A temperament would be to adjust them to be more manageable, such as how 31 Equal Temperament approximates many low ratios but without actually using ratios.
    12EDO has the best fifths by far, they are only 2 cents out and you'd be hard pressed to achieve such accuracy with a guitar anyway :) In short - 12EDO powerchords are perfect! But yes, having that 3rd in there on distortion can be muddy.
    That's where JI/31EDO really appeals to me, as I use close 3rds more than powerchords when writing metal.
    Very excited about the option of multiple thirds I listed too. The lower one, like you mentioned, is really dark and moody sounding. Less consonant with the fifth included above, because you're then stretching the major third from the m3 to the 5th, but sounded alone with the root it sounds fantastic, and of course you have the option of lowering the fifth to match and begin bringing it closer to a diminished chord too. Very flexible!
    I'm really keen to get this in my hands as soon as possible, so I'm probably going to build a basic prototype in the coming months.
     
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  16. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    12-EDO is probably the best balance between sounding like JI, having access to a good tritone, using a manageable number of notes, and being portable into all keys.

    I prefer 19-EDO, because it better represents major, minor, augmented, and diminished intervals than 12-EDO, but still has a good number of notes and is still perfectly portable into all keys. It just doesn't have a tritone and the fifths are a tiny bit more imperfect.

    As for playing with other musicians, it is possible, but you have to choose keys carefully and then continue to be careful. If I tune A=440Hz, and play my 19-EDO guitar with a keyboard player who is in 12-EDO, as long as we stick to the key of A and don't try too hard to play in unison, it's actually fine. Modulate into a strange key, though, like Eb, and everything will sound really bad. We do it all of the time without really thinking about it. If you try to throw any two instruments together, odds are that you are introducing some discrepancies between the tuning sets of each, but if the timbres of the two instruments are different enough, it will sound okay, if you are responsible with how you tune to reference.

    But also, playing something like 19-EDO with other musicians also in 19-EDO is exhilarating. I would love to see some alternative tuning systems get enough traction for micro bands to become a doable thing. I've found a couple of local guys who are willing to do it, but they are busy and it's very difficult to get them all in the same time and place.

    The fact that there are so many alternative tuning systems, and none of the ones that aren't tied to 12-EDO are any more accepted than any of the others, makes the entire process quite complicated. I'd totally be down for a 31-EDO band, though. :)
     
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  17. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

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    EverDream yes you may like the 7/6 'septimal subminor third'. You can tune 2 adjacent strings on a guitar to this interval by tuning the 6th harmonic of the higher string to the 7th harmonic of the lower.

    The harmonic subset tuning you list, some of those more complex ratios will be heard by the ear as slightly out of tune simpler ratios instead of a harmonic, especially the 491 cent 85/64.
     
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  18. Necris

    Necris Bonitis.

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    As someone playing a 25.5" guitar and a 34" scale bass in a similar temperament the longer scale length will definitely do you many favors in terms of playability. I can play just fine on my guitar, but shredding is a hard no. :lol: You may notice, if you actually go through with this plan, or another in the future, that you'll get a weird visual effect when looking at the fingerboard where everything looks almost 3-D for a second because of the light reflecting on all of the frets. It still happens to me occasionally. :lol:
     
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  19. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    Just to chime in *very late* on the original question, I used full fifths on 8-string for years (BbFCGDAEB low to high at 25.5", AbEBBFCGDA at 28.625", with a high string from Octave 4 Plus Strings).

    I then switched to a standard tuning, detuned a whole step, EADGCFAD low to high on 8-string and BEADGCFAD low to high on nine.

    This tuning allows me to really leverage normal guitar chords on the top six strings, while giving me a logical fourths tuning going down from there into territory where stacked notes start sounding more and more muddy, and chords across all the low strings aren't as useful to me.

    The retention of the full chordal aspect of guitar mattered to me, but might not to someone who is only focused on limited chording.
     
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