6ers with high strength necks for tuning to standard with heavy gauges?

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by silverabyss, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. Ebony

    Ebony Blastology

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    A chunky 3-piece, old-growth neck made of either Wenge, Ovangkol or Bubinga with 2 thick ebony stringers and the best truss-rod money can buy ought to do the trick.
     
  2. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    There is absolutely no need to go to this kind of expense.

    Any neck that isn't paper thin and/or a complete pile of shit will handle this just fine.

    That said, OP, once you hit anything above 12s, you will likely find that you HATE the G. If it's a plain G at those kinds of thicknesses, it will have very little sustain and hardly any top-end. If it's wound, it will take an awful lot of effort to bend it any more than a semitone, especially if you're mostly used to regular gauge strings.

    By all means, throw 12s on something. Throw 13s on at a push, but by the time you're hitting 14s, you will have other problems entirely to contend with.
     
  3. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    You’re not a real ss.org member unless your immediate response to a concern is to buy your way out of it with premium tonewoods.

    Yes. My Parker Flys are intended to have no relief, but the piano string in the neck is there so players can adjust to their preference. Vigiers are built with more relief than I personally prefer, but that’s the compromise of one-size-fits-all (no matter if the player is using 7s or 13s, there has to be enough relief to avoid dead notes at either extreme).
     
  4. Discoqueen

    Discoqueen Dang tootin

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    Well this makes sense. It's madness, but it makes sense. Good luck, seems like a very cool experiment to me ^.^ but like I said earlier, I'd imagine only flawed construction or some other malfunction would allow string tension so wreck the neck. I'd bet if the string held, the tuners would be next to goz
     
  5. Dineley

    Dineley SS.org Regular

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    The real issue here is watching Phillip McKnight videos
     
  6. Necris

    Necris Bonitis.

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    I've used heavy gauges for standard tuning since I started playing, since my first guitar was an acoustic and I couldn't adapt to .009's. My guitars are fine, 2 have graphite necks, the rest have single piece maple with a scarf joint. No problems.

    When I was interested in flatwound strings for bass, I put the heaviest available set of D'addario Chromes on a bass of mine which had a single piece maple neck, it had previously been strung with balanced tension Kalium round wounds on it, the increase in tension was probably 75lbs. (and not evenly distributed between the strings), the neck was fine after a truss rod adjustment.

    I wouldn't worry about needing a neck with special wood combinations or materials, but I also wouldn't expect any tangible benefit from your plan to begin with, much less a benefit that would make adapting to heavier strings worth it for you.
     
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  7. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    Necris - My experience is that heavier guage strings DO allow you to set lower action for the same amount of buzz, but that once you go past 11s, there's a massively diminishing return on it. 9s to 11s is a significant reduction in action. 11s to 13s, not so much, and as mentioned, once you hit 13s, the G becomes either impossible to bend or has shitty sustain, depending on whether you buy a wound or a plain G.

    I say throw 11s on it and don't worry about it. It's enough string to give you that big fat tone people are looking for out of thicker strings, and it's enough tension to have your action a bit lower, but not so excessive it starts to have other drawbacks.
     
  8. trem licking

    trem licking SS.org Regular

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    neck is not an issue, even thin Ibanez necks. What could be an issue, however, is if you have a trem. If you have a 2 point trem system, i personally wouldn't go past 10 gauge... especially on basswood bodies. Using massively heavy strings with these trems can oval out the trem stud mounts and top mounted floyd nuts in a hurry. yes there have been peeps who use 11s with success on floyds, but the benefits of doing such are marginal compared to what may result. long winded response to somethin that may not even be a factor here, but food for thought. fixed bridge can handle anything.
     
  9. silverabyss

    silverabyss

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    Not say I'm too crazy about trying with a floyd or 2-point system but wouldn't higher spring tension help mitigate the stress on the studs or is it the sum of spring and string tension acting on the studs?
     
  10. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    the ibanez pwm is tuned to c# on 12s factory stock.
     
  11. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    That's C#. Each string at that tuning has about 7lbs less tension on it than if it were tuned to standard - somewhere between 16 and 19lbs.
     
  12. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    well obviously.
    the original post I quoted didn't make any sense. It's clearly the tension that matters. And you couldn't put strings so heavy on the guitar it would damage it because you'd run out of counter tension even with 5 springs in order to set up the guitar
     
  13. DudeManBrother

    DudeManBrother Hey...how did everybody get in my room?

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    Neck will be fine. Just make sure the truss rod works and your trem springs are stiff. If it’s bowing too much or the bridge is lifted then it’s obviously no good. I use 12-54 for E standard on my PRS ce24. That’s a single piece of maple for the neck and it’s always been perfect. Low action is the benefit, more effort for bends is the consequence. It also seems to roll off high end as you go thicker.
    I tried 13-56 on my RG2550 with the Edge Zero trem, and the highest I could tune it was C standard. The bridge would pull straight up once it got more tension, even with the thumb wheel maxed; so hopefully you’re trying this with a different bridge :lol:
     
  14. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    It made perfect sense in the context of a thread that specified standard tuning in the very first post.
     
  15. GuitarBizarre

    GuitarBizarre Listen to physics.

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    oh and silverabyss - no, because the pressure from both spring and string is being applied only at the fulcrum point. I've had a guitar die because of it before - the studs began to bulge out the back of their cavities as the tops of the studs moved forwards.
     
  16. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    you would never be able to set the guitar up properly. so yeah. i guess warning about an impossible situation. i guess.

    Actually, now that I think about it some more, I don't even know if this is true. Maybe if your guitar is really really really soft.

    https://reverb.com/item/2162252-tom-anderson-bari-a-tom-baritone-guitar

    That's a anderson baritom strung 13-68 with a two point vintage tremolo tuned b-b. That's 19 to 28 pounds of tension. That guitar is factory spec to be able to take a 14 baritone set which is equal to 13 set in E standard on a 25.5.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  17. trem licking

    trem licking SS.org Regular

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    my point is that at standard tuning the higher gauge strings pull on the studs harder, as well as rocking the top mount nut back and forth with more force when you use the trem. you might get lucky and have no problem with the tension using 11s or higher, but after some time of using such heavy gauge strings, you quite possibly will oval out the wood where the studs and wood screws are. this is especially true in basswood, because it is so very soft. just look on jemsite at posts where this has happened. just something to keep in mind.
     
  18. kindsage

    kindsage SS.org Regular

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    If you can drop the money on it go for a Vigier guitar.
    The neck is 10% carbon fiber
     
  19. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    And a hundred percent filthy french bastard.

    I love mine.
     
  20. kindsage

    kindsage SS.org Regular

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    I wish more companies would attempt what Vigier does with their necks.

    I would love to never have to worry about doing truss rod adjustments again.
     

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