444hz tuning ( 528hz)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by willy25, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. schwiz

    schwiz Lefty

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    Coming from the guy who returned his studio monitors to use Logitech PC speakers.

    This thread delivers.
     
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  2. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    I admit, I'm guilty of (for practically my whole life) assuming that my out-of-tune instruments not sounding in-tune with one another was a merely the sole, obvious consequence of being out-of-tune. For the first time, this thread has me wondering whether it may actually instead be something to do with the hidden nature of the universe that they don't want you to know about, by Kevin Trudeau.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
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  3. mongey

    mongey SS.org Regular

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    tried it

    just sounded a little sharp to me . no better or worse
     
  4. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

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    have you checked your intonation? maybe thats the problem you have. You are perfectly in tune for the open strings but once you start fretting you are out.
     
  5. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    Reddit says I should adjust the truss rod, while the gear page says I need a new nut! Depending on the subforum here, prescriptions for my tuning problem includes BKPs and/or a used Prestige. One guy even took ten paragraphs just to say that it's impossible to have a guitar set up "wrong." Incidentally, he had a lot of responses saying he was doing it wrong. Then those people explained that you need certain woods for my tuning, but none of them remembered what went with standard tuning. Then another guy quoted the ten paragraphs by the other guy, and posted a link to a three hour YouTube video as a rebuttal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
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  6. myrtorp

    myrtorp Jiggywiggy

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    I think the sarcophagus in the Kings Chamber in the Great Pyramid is tuned to A in 438hz, and the chamber itself to F#, so the a is a minor third. Isn't that interesting!

    All the healing talk with sound is pretty hippie but interesting nonetheless. It's always easy to be dismissive and skeptic rather than open minded. Maybe there's something to it? maybe not?

    I think im gonna go meditate and drink some green tea lol.
     
  7. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    Well, not always. Skeptics [should] address a claim in good faith by applying critical thinking and investigating. And that's more work than truly owed as the person making the claim bears the burden of proof. The facile thing is choosing to adopt whatever because it sounds interesting and it is gratifying to feel like you know the "truth" while everybody else is "wrong" while taking no intellectual responsibility for justifying it.

    I see it like this: the mind is like a dinner party and ideas are like guests- just because a guest may be interesting doesn't mean that it's a good idea if they move-in.

    Anyway, in a field that is absolutely brimming with all kinds of you're-doing-it-wrong bully-pulpit bullshit, do we really more of it?
     
  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Erm, the box in the upper chamber is tuned to resonate at 117 Hz ± ?

    If you call that "A," then the octave is 234 Hz and then 468 Hz. If you call it A#, then A would be 442 Hz.

    Do you have a reputable source that states otherwise?

    The chamber itself resonates at 121 Hz. Two octaves higher is 484 Hz, about a quarter step higher than the box.
     
  9. Bobro

    Bobro SS.org Regular

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    The fixed reference pitch doesn't mean a darn thing, so the 432 conspiracy theory thing is almost 100 percent a load of hogwash. Using a 432 A and 12-tone equal temperament, all you get is a transposition down about a quartertone, nothing more than that. I say "almost" because if you have antique and vintage acoustic instruments, they were almost certainly built for a lower overall pitch, and will physically sound better with a lower "A" than 440. I have a vintage and very valuable clarinet that wasn't made for A-440. Then there is the human voice, which tends to get strained and thin singing the highest notes when using a 440 A and higher (in Vienna the orchestras tune about 448 Hz in recent times, so you'll never hear a real balls to the wall Queen of the Night aria anymore there). In the old days, orchestras would shift the whole pitch spectrum up or down to suit the star singers. That's the musical way, and that's how Indian classical music works too- the singer sings the reference pitch and it can change every concert.

    Aside from these considerations, where tuning really matters musically is in the relative pitches between the notes. This is a whole world unto itself and makes a huge difference. The worst thing about the 432 Hz nonsense is that it detracts from the very serious and real issue of the actual tuning, which is all about the relative frequencies between tones. Our current 12-tone equal temperament only became "fixed" a hundred years ago, and even then didn't really completely dominate until recently. Neither Bach nor Mozart used 12-tone equal temperament- Bach knew of it and is on record as saying it sucks, and Mozart is on record describing his tuning to one of his students; it's what's called "1/6 comma meantone", and works out to 55 tones to the octave, not 12. Of course he didn't use all 55 tones and keys, only 12 on a keyboard and about two dozen distinct tones for orchestras and choirs.

    Western music theory, notation and harmony is based on quarter-comma meantone, which works out to 31 tones per octave. That's why C# and Db are notated differently, even though they are the same pitch on today's keyboards and guitars- originally they were literally different pitches, and harpsichords several hundred years ago often had split keys to reflect that.

    It's a huge topic and tons and tons of work if you get into it. Personally I use 17 unequally spaced tones to the octave and a 416 Hz reference pitch, I think it's well worth it to get away from the 12-tone A-440 system, even though it's tons of work and relearning everything and all that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  10. myrtorp

    myrtorp Jiggywiggy

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    I just read it on the web! Might be bullshit tho. Now that you ask I looked it up and only found cheesy websites stating it.

    About skeptics, doing a skeptical analysis and really look into something takes time and effort offcource. But just dismissing something out of hand since it sounds too far fetched or stupid is what i mean by easy.

    Then there's the other way around where you absorb info without too much critical thinking like me with the pyramid acoustics just now ;)
    I just love the mystery surrounding ancient structures like the pyramids though. I guess I want there to be some cool connection like that. I have been on a roll about ancient ruins and read and watched so many videos about them. Kind of annoys me to admit I wasn't very skeptical myself haha!
     
  11. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    what i mainly dislike from naysayers is how these arrogant skeptics think they can just take an idea or claim presented without evidence and then just dismiss it without evidence. i mean, they kind of have to prove it does not not exist, or else who should we even believe?
     
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  12. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I'm not sure how serious your posts are, generally speaking, so, feel free to dismiss this if you were only joking.
    So, you cannot accept every idea as default, otherwise, you have to accept conflicting assumptions, and, generally, this thought process can be very dangerous. This is evidenced by the present day and age, in which folks are so convinced that they can treat cancer and other dangerous diseases by praying, crystal therapy, magnets, etc., even when there have been studies suggesting that those treatments do nothing to slow the action of the disease- meanwhile there are dozens of effective treatments available but not being used.
    So, it's one thing to believe that a particular frequency has positive health effects on an individual, which is fine, but it is another, more dangerous thing to attempt to spread that idea based on zero evidence and no concrete logic.

    In this case, there is a preponderance of evidence that neither 432 Hz nor 440 Hz nor 444 Hz has any effect on the human body that the others do not, and there is no evidence whatsoever, that any reference tone in music is universally preferable to any other, except for 440 Hz, merely because it is easily and readily available.
     
  13. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    As the cow said by shaking its tits, I disagree udderly. All I know is that guitar players talk down any new idea or old idea the proponent just heard about. Like, instead of tuning your open A to 440, try tuning your 12th fret to 880. You might find you feel a lot better and, besides, who does it hurt? Without deviation, progress is not deviant.
     
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  14. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Why not both? And drop-tune? Tune your low A to 110 Hz and then the twelfth fret to 220 Hz and reap the rewards of the best of all three worlds?
    Take it one step further and grab a second guitar; tune each string and each fret to a slightly different reference pitch, then compare how the two sound, then decide for yourself which sounds cooler. :lol:
     
  15. Kwert

    Kwert SS.org Regular

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    That's not exactly true. In the Baroque period there was no real standard for what "A" was. You'd have anything ranging from A=375 all the way to A=444, maybe even more variance on either end. The standardization of "A" is a relatively recent thing.
     
  16. DistinguishedPapyrus

    DistinguishedPapyrus SS.org Regular

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  17. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

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    true, but it doesnt change the fact that 440 sounds like 440 and 432 or 444 or 325 or whtever sounds like those.

    we standarized to 440 to be known as "A", you can call 375 "K" if you want, like Crazy Dean said, at some point you are not in "A" anymore, but not enough to be in "Ab" so you are in "A-$%@b". His point is that its another frequency. Another "note"

    to "tune" to 432 or whatever number, is like us now "downtuning", We are using A= 391.995 in order to play songs in "dropC" or "D standard", just that the "A" string now is 391.995, or more commonly known as "G"

    same concept applies to the in-between frequencies where is not A but not Ab, its just that we dont have a name for it


    The whole "its the universe frequency" thing is bullcrap, because if that were true then we could only be able to play A and all the octaves in order to keep the "sacred number" as the frequencies waveforms are only doubles or halfs. ANY other note played in that whatever A tunned instruemnt would be a random Hz number taht would ahve nothing to do with A.

    like you can play a beautiful A chord and everything is harmony, but you can chuck some random note and it wold never sound good with A.


    why do we downtune today?, because some songs just sound better in another scale with a lower note, but we jsut want to keep using the guitar as we learn it, not to add more strings and change patterns, so we change our tunning to a different "A" Hz, tecnically we are not downtunning, we are changing our A frequency so we can play our songs the way we learn the instrument with the scales that we feel more comfortable and elt the instrument to transpose it to a "better" scale by changing our "A".

    same concept if you tune to A"444", you technically are "up tuning" your guitar, its jsut that its such a small change that it doesnt reach to be A# so we dont have a name for it..... same as 432Hz, you just are "downtuning" to a note we dont have a name for it but it sits in between Ab-A .
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  18. Bobro

    Bobro SS.org Regular

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    There you've hit upon the problem that has plagued musical tuning for the last 2000+ years. Bu it's not just the octaves of A that will sound good and be "in tune" and blend in harmoniously, but any ratios of simple integer multiples of the fundamental frequency. For example, the pure and "natural" fifth vibrates at 3/2 the frequency of the fundamental, the pure major third at 5/4, the fourth at 4/3. If you tune this way, though, you're pretty much stuck with the root key and sometimes modulating to the fifth, like in Indian music. Otherwise your notes will sound as you describe- totally unrelated to the root tone. This is why we have 12-tone equal temperament these days- everything is off from natural harmonic relationships, technically everything is "out of tune", but in a way that has rhyme and reason to it, and we just get used to it, too. It's easy to hear this on a guitar- compare the difference between a harmonic and a fretted note that's the same note on paper. 12-tone equal temperament (12-tET) is a brilliant (and Chinese Ming dynasty) invention because the fifth is just a fraction of a hair (2 cents) flat of the pure 3:2 fifth you find in "nature", and western music is largely based on fifths, from the "circle of fifths" to power chords. Several hundred years ago, when major thirds were the real focus of western music, western music was tuned to 1/4-comma meantone, which has pure natural major thirds but the compromise was that the fifths were very flat and usually sound like ass to us today.

    There are all kinds of tricky ways to try to get around this inherent conflict between "the music of the spheres" and actual music making, but western culture decided on 12-tone equal temperament and it is very practical and flexible, obviously. The reference pitch itself doesn't mean much, but the tuning means a lot, and that's where these 432 nuts should be concentrating, if they were musically serious at all.
     
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  19. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    :scratch:

    A = 440 Hz is the standard. That is not a wrong statement. Saying "in the Baroque period" doesn't make that any less of a fact. The standardization of A = 440 Hz is a relatively recent thing, but it is a thing.

    Please don't jump down someone's throat by saying "That's not exactly true" when what the person said is, at the moment, exactly true.
     
  20. Necris

    Necris Bonitis.

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